June 19, 2006
Minor League Recap
AAA Norfolk
- The Norfolk Tides (28-41) lost to the Louisville Bats 3-2. Anderson Hernandez went 2 for 5 with a run scored and an RBI and Victor Diaz went 2 for 4 with a double and an RBI. Jeriome Robertson went six innings and took the loss for the Tides. Robertson gave up six hits, three earned runs, and three walks while striking out three.
AA Binghamton Mets
- The Binghamton Mets (30-38) lost to the Trenton Thunder 4-2 as Philip Hughes and Will Collazo pitched great. The both took the no decision and went seven innings while giving up two runs each. Collazo gave up five hits and no runs while striking out six as Hughes gave up six hits and two walks while striking out eleven. Matt Lindstrom took the loss in relief and went one inning while giving up two runs. Carlos Gomez went 2 for 4, Ray Navarrete went 1 for 4 with his third homerun of the year and Jay Caligiuri went 2 for 4 with a double and his tenth homerun of the year.
Low-A Hagerstown Suns
- The Hagerstown Suns (28-42) beat the Delmarva Shorebirds 6-3. Deolis Guerra started the game for the Suns and picked up his second professional win and owns a 3.24 ERA. Guerra went five innings and gave up two runs and struck out three. Guerra’s good control continued as he did not walk a batter for the second game out his last three and has only walked two in his last fifteen innings after walking ten in his first ten innings. Kevin Tomasiewicz picked up his sixth save of the year and gave up no runs in one inning of work. Joseph Holden went 1 for 4 with his tenth stolen base of the year, Jonathan Sanchez went 1 for 4 with his eighth homerun of the year, Jonel Pacheco went 3 for 4 with two runs scored, an RBI, and his thirteenth homerun of the year, and Jonathan Schemmel went 2 for 3 with two RBIs.
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When in the hell is Phil Humber going to pitch???
More or less same question: What is going on with Humber? Wasn’t he supposed to pitch his first game two weeks ago?
Anyone know if Matsui is still in AAA and if so, is there a specific plan to bring him up?
For those who claimed that Jacobs has more holes in his swing that swiss cheese, his BA is now .273 and has been steadily climbing.
I miss Mike Jacobs. I hope he doesn’t hold any ill will towards us, and I hope to get him back 3-4 years from now when he is hitting .320 and busting out 40 hrs a year. Him and David Wright would of been great Poster boys of are Organization.
Here is a link to tell you about what Phil Humber is doing? Im glad to see he is throwing. It is a little dated, so he should be almost to full stamina now. it was dated May 28, and he was about to throw four innings of extended games. So hopefully we will see him probably in Hagerstown very soon.
http://blogs.nydailynews.com/mets/archives/2006/05/
we arent winning crap with jacobs at first right now. Anyone who is harping over that trade for delgado is forever being ignorant to the hope of future players and ignoring the realities that delgado brings and has brought to the lineup. Look at beltran and wright for any more evidence
Well, then label me “ignorant”. I can see the argument for the trade; I just don’t like it and can also see the argument against it. I suppose that I can buy the argument that Delgado’s presence should be measured by more than his RBIs. I hope that everyone is still happy in a year or two. As far as beltran and wright providing “evidence”, beltran did just fine in KC and Houston without Delgado, and Wright did just fine last year without him. One goes with the odds and as many on this list have pointed out, prospects don’t always make it. Jacobs and Petit may never be stars. But I think that one and maybe both will. Regardless, Jacobs seems like a really nice guy, and I hope he does well. And like R Griffin wishes, I hope he becomes a Met again.
Are you telling me some people out there really rather have Jacobs/Petit than Delgado? I guess these are the same people that would rather have Jason Scobie and Brett Harper on the ML roster? Ridonkulous.
I personally liked Jacobs too and hope he does well in his career, but there is no way this team would enjoy its present-day record with Carlos Delgado playing elsewhere. Anyone who believes that Beltran’s current success would have been duplicated without one of his best baseball friends and mentors on this team deflecting attention and providing him offensive protection is ignoring how different Beltran looks on field this year as opposed to the last. You cannot measure the various and delicate ways leadership and veteran confidence manifestst themselves during a professional season–hence the reason so many Mets fans rightly adore LoDuca.
If Jacobs does have a decent offensive year and produces the 26 HRs and 97 RBIs he is projected to, then he deserves his due a young fine looking power hitter. But these numbers, however satisfactory, will not match Delgado’s projected 47 HRs and 123 RBIs. This is not even to mention the “intangibles” Delgado provides in the clubhouse and on the feild.
Now this whole Jacobs issue, like the Kazmir one before it, should be dropped by fans who continue to think that every prospect and young stud will come and save the organization for the next ten years. Jacobs should be a good MLB player, but there is little guarantee of what a player this young can produce over the next 2-3 years.
Unlike the Kazmir deal, the Mets got exactly what they bargained for and are enjoying the fruits of Delgado’s success. Delgado will turn 34 the 25th of this month and has a contract that runs another two years after this one making him 36 when it is up. Now, all of us who have seen Delgado know that he is a healthy, althletic and productive athlete who should roughly produce the same numbers for the duration of his tenure here. Please lets let Jacobs go…its not like the Kazmir, Ryan, and Kent deals where we sent top tier prospects for underachieving veteren players.
Ramon, are you suggesting that these ballplayers are human, and not computer-generated machines that will churn out certain statistics each year, irrelative to other factors? Poppycock! On a serious note, if Beltran says Delgado has made a huge difference for him, than we should give Delgado some credit for that.
Last year, Jacobs was basically mired in Double-A as barely more than an organizational filler (see 10 top minors lists from early ‘05, no sign of Jacobs). He got a chance, went nuts for a month, and Omar turned that month and a good (not great) pitching prospect into Carlos Delgado. The current team is a great mix of young and old.
How Jacobs would perform this year was a complete unknown at the time of the deal. Not to mention, if Jacobs had started this year for the Mets like he did with the Marlins (mired near .200 into late May), he would have never been given the chance to break out of his slump. And then we would all be criticizing Omar for not trading Jacobs when his value was highest, as Jacobs would be in Triple-A or traded at low value, and Julio Franco would be our everyday first baseman, unless Omar had pulled off some panic move to get a more established, everyday first baseman.
The trade was a no-brainer. Jacobs could become a 5-time All-Star, and the trade is still easily defensible.
Ah, I forgot about that. Well, the word was poppyc0ck.
Danny, very funny. Yes, here at Mets Geek there are some who think baseball serves as a testing ground for all sorts of statistical predictions based upon the grand teachings of the holy beancounter Bill James and his great religion Sabermetrology. The notion that baseball teams are greater than the statistical sum of their parts actually deserving of an analysis beyond the realm of mathematical computation is an idea so blasphemous that it could very well engender excommunication from the Church or mere the denunciation as a baseball heretic.
, and the trade is still easily defensible.
I also agree if the emphasis was to win in 2006 at the possible cost of later years. The trade is easily defendable. That doesn’t mean I like it. I am sure that Beltran is delighted that his buddy is on the team. But that does not mean the Mets need to buy him an expensive friend to bring him stablility? He did just fine in KC and Houston without him. By this argument, the Mets should never have traded or released that nice guy utility player (his name skips my mind now) that was like a big brother to Wright. The trade probably makes sense in today’s baseball word of free agency where you don’t count on players to have their careers in one place.
Eli, it was Joe McEwing. He sucked at baseball, by the way.
You are conveniently leaving out the part where there was absolutely no way of projecting what kind of player Jacobs would be this year, and will become in the future. Omar saw a team that could win today (see current record), and knew that Delgado would ensure that. Jacobs could have dragged the team into the mud.
You also conveniently leave out the part where Jacobs was hitting sub-.200 into late May. The Mets probably could have still been in contention in spite of that, and would have surely benched, demoted or traded the ineffective Jacobs, and Omar would have been castigated for counting on the inexperienced Jacobs to be a productive first baseman.
What is the cost for later years? When Delgado’s contract is over in a couple of years, will Omar be unable to replace him with another slugging first baseman? Maybe Mike Carp or Nick Evans is the next Mike Jacobs. Maybe Nick Swisher will be a free agent. Maybe Fernando Martinez gets shifted to first. Sure, it is possible that Omar could have mortgaged the future, although to me it is highly unlikely (other options, like the ones mentioned above, will always emerge down the line).
I think it is far more likely that Mike Jacobs will not be that good.
There is an article in today’s Denver Post about everyone’s favorite second baseman…or is it shortstop now?
Man, since when was a 25 HR 95 RBI first baseman such a valued commodity? One would think that Carlos Delgado is magically going to stop powering his way to 30-40HR and 110-130 RBI after this season because he is not some 20 something year old kid? Wow!
I just don’t see how someone can complain about trading a guy who has proven NOTHING in his major league career for a man who has consistently been one of the most productive power hitters in all MLB for almost a decade? I just don’t get why people are worrying about 2007 when 2006 hasn’t even entered the halfway point? Jesus Christ Eli…lets get a grip here. Before you annoint the Delgado trade a ‘disappointment’ why don’t you wait and see if the kid’s current hot streak is nothing more than a hot streak? Just because Jacobs is young and is projected to have a nice season, it doesn’t mean that he will…especially considering how streaky this year has been so far. At least Delgado has a distinguished track record to suggest that this All-Star caliber season is no regression from the mean, Jacobs has nothing to fall back on accept two very hot months. Last year the guy got off to a stellar start with the Mets and now he is also hot with the bat after badly sumping earlier in this young season.
I’m sorry, I just don’t see where you are drawing your grandiose claims from. My advice is for you to stop worrying about 2007, enjoy 2006, and wait for the season to play out before you make Jacobs trade out to be a mistake on the level of the 1918 sell of Babe Ruth to the Yankees.
Lastly, there is little doubt in most any observer’s mind that the move to get Delgado in NY has positively impacted Carlos Beltran this season. While Beltran did great with Kansas and Houston, he floundered badly in NY during his first season. Before this year, most fans were already writing his off as free agent bust on the level of Bobby Bonilla. Its amazing how quickly fans can forget and I think that you should really give Delgado his props cause he is a big part of the Mets present day success in way that you are ignoring.
Ah, at it again. Why is your opinion the only right one according to you? You have a self-important air about the way you speak around here and presumably everywhere else you go and open your mouth. Why you are against statistical analysis is beyond me and most people have high regard for both traditional baseball scouting as well as statistical analysis. And of course, there are things that cannot be quantified by statistical analysis like how much better the team is with Delgado on the team vs. Mike Jacobs even if they put the identical numbers, which they won’t. Delgado brings much more to the team than just numbers with him being a consummate professional, an excellent media presence, a guy who give pitchers skid marks in their pants, and a very intelligent player who is not afraid or in awe by New York. No matter how good Jacobs turns out, Delgado is great for this team and where they are now.
As far as statistical predictions, their relevance to today’s game is tremendous. For scouting, it allows you to identify groups of players to allocate your resources to. With so many high school and college players out there, it lets you narrow the talent. When you take into account a player’s size, physical abilities like speed and arm strength, and wrap that up with analysis on what he has done against who, you can begin to better predict future success. This goes for Major League players too. No one knows what a guy is going to do obviously. As previously stated, players are not machines. A break up with a girlfriend or wife could significantly impact their level play.
However, traditional scouting also leaves a lot of questions as to what they are going to do as well. Either avenue has a significant level of risk. Statistical analysis is supposed to a tool used to evaluate talent and try and forecast what a player could do and try to assign some sort probability to reduce risk. That should not be in lieu of or disregard any traditional scouting or evaluation, but should be used in tandem. The more information you have the better and to ignore either end is more or less ignorant.
As for the Heath Bell argument which you are obviously referring too, he is a guy with good stuff and good peripherals. It’s not just his high BIBIP that is at play with him and why people think he can successful, it’s his K/9 and K/BB too. K/9 is a good future indicator of success as is K/BB. Simply put, you cannot strike batters out in this league if you do not have good stuff. Bell strikes people out. If you have a good K/BB ratio, that is also a plus. 2:1 is considered good and anything else above that is really good and what your top pitchers in the league post (of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking). Bell put up 4.50 in his first year of the bigs in 2004, 3.31 in 2005, and 2.33 in 2006. While that is a negative trend, he still has a very solid 3.36 K/BB ratio at the highest level. All that is right in line with his 4.09 career minor league ratio. Of course while Bell may end up being out of the bigs and never turning into much, but these types of things help in evaluation and help predict what a player might do and not will do. When you look at these things with Bell, there are a few positive signs of future success. That does not mean a player can take his ability to put it to good use, but it helps give means to try and evaluate these types of things.
Both points of view are heavily defended but the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Both play a big part in today’s game and neither is the end all be all. We all know stats and statistical analysis is not the end all be all but has given a way for fans to make a lot of their own evaluations as well since as people in the real world we are unable to go see every player with out own eyes for one thing and has helped teams better evaluate talent on all levels.
I’m sorry Micheal you are right. I am wrong.
I’m a guy who loves the hope that prospects represent, and I place a high value on homegrown talent that shows up young and comes to represent the franchise to the fans.
Plus, I loved what I saw from Jacobs last year, and thought that his swing was pretty projectible as a solid major league weapon.
That being said, I think there are times when you have to take the risk of giving up some future value for a relatively known commodity, especially to put the final pieces of a great team into place.
Right now, I think it’s safe to say that both franchises won on this one by getting what they needed. I also tend to believe that if Jacobs continues his ascendency and indeed becomes a top tier slugger, the Marlins are likely to face a bidding war for his services that they won’t be able to win. (I’m guessing that Jacobs’ free agent year will be the post-’08 offseason? Or will it be ‘09?) At that point, it would be great if the Mets could be in the mix for the guy, who’ll be somewhere around 28 years old.
In the meantime, I think that we can be pretty confident that Delgado - barring injury - will be pretty good for us through the end of his current deal, and that the team will still be in good shape with 26 yr-olds like Wright and Reyes, a 31 year-old Beltran in Center, a certain 23 year-old corner outfielder (assuming he buys an alarm clock at some point) - maybe a 20 year-old rookie named Fernandez at the other corner - and perhaps a rotation that includes Pelphrey, Humber, and Soler (at 29 yrs old or so) with Henry Owens mowing down hitters in the 9th.
As for Jacobs, even if his next two seasons match Delgado for production, I still believe that Delgado’s presence in this clubhouse adds value and maturity - and we’ve yet to see if Pettit will contribute soon enough to be a factor over that time.
Let’s be happy with what we’re seeing out of this deal, and gear up for a push to sign Jacobs as a free agent down the road if that still looks like a good idea when Delgado’s deal is done.
Good morning all. Geez it must suck to be a Braves fan these days. (-:
Honestly, I don’t want you to agree. You can have your opinions, it’s the way you go about expressing them that rubs people the wrong way. If everyone agreed, there would not point in having a comment section. It’s here to discuss the Mets and have constructive arguments. If I was right all the time, I’d be in baseball. Not working for the man in corporate America. You feel the need to take digs at people like you actually know everything when it is clearly apparent you don’t.
Plus, I loved what I saw from Jacobs last year, and thought that his swing was pretty projectible as a solid major league weapon.
That being said, I think there are times when you have to take the risk of giving up some future value for a relatively known commodity, especially to put the final pieces of a great team into place.
Precisely. Jacbos could swing the bat. His lefty stroke looked damn near perfect. However, you couldn’t pencil him in for 30 dingers and 110 RBIs. Delgado was more of a known force. Beyond the bat, Jacobs is a butcher at first. If you have have seen him, you know what I mean. Delgado may not be Derrick Lee, but he’s certainly better than Jacobs and that cannot be overlooked. This team has been tight defensively and that has been with a right side of the diamond that is supposed to be rough.
Right now, I think it’s safe to say that both franchises won on this one by getting what they needed.
It was a good deal for both ends. No doubt. The sign of two good GMs at work is when when sides get what they want. Too many times we see guys trying to rip people off and killing deals.
Like I said before, that Delgado deal should be done 100 of 100 times. Keith Hernandez was a guy that would be at his locker at the end of every game. Win or lose. Those types of guys make the game easier for guys who aren’t media darlings or particularly like talking to the media. Delgado is that guy and has the leadership qualities that Piazza lacked. Guys that have street cred in terms of being extremely prodcutive players and are vocal leaders are key to a team like the Mets and in the position they are in.
This has been a long time coming with their flawed streak. Justice is finally being served.
Amen!
Micheal, you are being false. Of course you want me to agree. You want to convince me that your take is correct and I don’t mind listening to your argument. The problem here is that everything I have seen so far from you is an attempt to define the perameters of what acceptable dialogue is and what acceptable dialogue isn’t. You’re like some kidergarten teacher who wants to make sure everybody puts on a smiley face and doesn’t misbehave in the classroom.
For you sarcasm, hyperbole, or playful ribbing have no place in your classroom that is Mets Geek and I don’t understand why. This a blog, we are here because we are fans, and if we take digs at one another it is because we disagree about a team we passionately root for. Now what I find so fascinating here is that you, the moral cop of the room, have for all of your lectures about civility made some rediculous personal observations about me based off of what you’ve read in a few blogs. I would advise you not to allow my comments about “beancounter gods” or “Sabermetrology” to bother you as they apparently do. They are exaggerations, distortions, and innately inaccurate statements that beg to be taken with a major grain of salt. You see, I am not so insecure as to believe that any digs taken at me are signs are signs of superciliousness and I’ve always assumed that people here are smart enough to separate the crap from the content. For some reason you get worked up about this and don’t seem to get the subtext. Maybe I will outline the parts where I am serious and the other parts where I’m braking your balls.
With that said, I would still like to see one…just one of your analyses move beyond the realm of sabermetrics. Either way, I don’t expect for you to agree. So therefore I will reiterate what I said in my previous blog….
Yes, Micheal you are right. I am wrong….
Becuase if I can’t make my point the way I want to make it, then there is absolutely no point of engaging with your ideas.
Sarcasm, hyperbole, or playful ribbing are accepted, but from you, it honestly does not exactly come across to well. As for us/me defining the parameters of acceptable dialogue, for one, I’ll state the obvious thing that it is our site and we like to keep a certain tone around here and not alienate people wanting to join in on the discussions. There are people here who actually emailed us to say they are no longer coming by because of certain people and some whom actually left/stop commenting because of some people posting here. There are people who posted on the sight saying they are done posting here because of some posters. I’m not saying you are one of those (you might be or you might not be), but I think you can understand why we cannot have everyone just acting however they want here. I don’t that that is revolutionary idea here. That being said, sometimes sarcasm is bit easier in person than written, and Ramon, your sarcasm does not drip through in your posts. Sorry man.
As far as any of my arguments being beyond the realm of Sabermetrics, you are talking the wrong person here. I am by far the least sabermetric person on this site. You are taking my comments based about one player and making them my entire basis for every argument, which is wrong.
Have we ever discussed anything before? Did I miss where you actually did make a point in this current debate? I really don’t believe so. In regards to my arguments…I have no idea where you are coming from. If you have read any of my articles, they are the typically the antithesis of being stat heavy. As far as you ‘engaging my ideas’….that’s actually pretty funny.
I must have missed where you ‘engaged’ me in a debate. I don’t think it’s a mystery why you rub me wrong the way.
It’s a dead issue at this point anyway…I think we’ve gone back and forth too many times as it is.
I couldn’t agree more with this Michael. There is a place for both.
Ramon, I actually like a lot of your stuff. Your point of views are often in accord with my own. But you definitely come off as condescending. I will never tell you how to argue, but your points get lost with all of that extra-curricular stuff going on. In my opinion, it really is unnecessary to be that way. The founders of this site expect a positive and productive tenor of discourse on this site. That is completely reasonable.