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January 6, 2006
And Starting at Second-Base…
Willie Randolph has been in organized baseball since 1972, when he was drafted in the seventh round by the Pittsburgh Pirates. Except for a one year lapse in 1993, he’s spent every year of his life since the age of eighteen in the game. Over thirty-two years — more time than most of you reading this have been alive — filled with playing, watching and coaching baseball. He’s been led by some of the greatest names in managerial history: Martin, Piniella, Lasorda and LaRussa. He coached under another two greats: Showalter and Torre. During his years and years and years as a ballplayer and coach he was able to soak in the calls and moves from the bench, the matchups and maneuverings in the bullpen, to the point where they were second nature to him. Only last season, they didn’t seem to be second nature to him. In fact, they seemed pretty alien to the guy. Right off the bat, however, let’s give Randolph his due on some aspects of his managerial game. Randolph came from the Yankees with a reputation of molding ballplayers that happened to be kids into men that happened to play baseball. He was given a lot of credit for turning Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter into the players they are today, and that was evident in his approach to guys like David Wright, Jose Reyes and Victor Diaz. He came to the Mets and preached respect for your teammates. He preached teamwork on and off the field. He preached responsibility for your actions. And it was clearly evident that he made an impact in this regard. Cliff Floyd appeared in 150 games for the first time since 1998. Jose Reyes, after getting hundreds of glares from across the dugout on television and earfuls from Randolph off it, progressed both in the batter’s box and more obviously in the field. Guys wanted to play for Willie Randolph, and almost every man on the team played their butt off for him. So if Willie Randolph was the bench coach of the Mets, we’d be trumpeting him as one of the best in the game, and more than likely wondering why he hasn’t been getting a shot at a managerial position, just as Yankees fans had been doing for a number of years. Much like Don Baylor or Ozzie Guillen, Randolph has a way of talking to his players, and getting his player’s respect, because he’s one of them. He’s been in the game for a long time, he put up some nice numbers in his time, he’s not that far removed from his own playing career, and he’s played alongside some of the best and worst players in the history of baseball. His experience comes close to being second to none — he’s like the Forrest Gump of Major League Baseball. The downside to this is Randolph still thinks and acts much like the player he once was. When you start playing baseball at higher levels, one of the first things you’re taught to do is to not overthink your situation. When you’re going good, you don’t dare change anything — and when you’re going bad, you don’t dare change anything, for fear of screwing yourself up beyond repair (see: Mike Lowell’s 2005 season). Second guessing your approach at the plate, on the mound, in the field, will only lead to bad things. During Spring Training, when the games don’t really matter, you can screw around all you want. But during the season, you are told that even minute adjustments can throw your entire game out of whack. So you have only one option — to stay your course until things get too overwhelming. Much of this approach is seen in Willie’s managerial style — as evidenced by everyone’s favorite Willie-ism, “I had a feeling”. Why’d he have Miguel Cairo hitting second? Why’d Kaz Ishii stay in the game past the third inning? Why’d he let Takatasu pitch against Miguel Cabrera in the biggest spot of the season? Willie explained all of these away by stating that he had a feeling they might work out. That Cairo would hit better, that Ishii would turn it around, that Takatsu would bring the funk. And the New York media, being the blood-thirsty anarchists they are known around the globe for… simply accepted that answer and declared Randolph a resounding success as a first year manager. You can scratch your head here, if you like. Perhaps Randolph’s biggest curse last season was that he was given a successful ballclub. If the Mets lost ninety or so games, Randolph seems to be the kind of man who would have gone to the drawing board, learned from his mistakes, and tried to come up with a few different things that might work better. Instead, most of the members of the media congratulated the guy on his good job, for turning a 71-win team into an 83-win team, while completely overlooking the fact that the Mets should have won around 88 - 91 games. They glossed over the fact that Willie has some overwhelming problems with managing a bullpen. They didn’t seem to have much of a problem with two OBP sinkholes manning the first and second spot of the lineup for the majority of the year. And when Carlos Beltran took a turn for the worse after multiple injuries, it was his fault for not producing, not Willie’s for continually slotting him into the three-hole despite no logical reason for letting an offense rely on him. Granted, first seasons are not the best way to judge future results — heck, future Hall of Famer Bobby Cox finished 69-93 and then 66-94 in his first two seasons — so Randolph is not a shoe-in for immense failure. But one of the most important things about going from being a player to managing a big league ballclub is to remember that you’re no longer a player. Not only is it all right to accept the mistakes you make and to learn from them, it’s pretty much mandatory in order to be successful. Managers must learn from their mistakes, and good managers learn from all of them. Tony LaRussa, for example, analyzes every mistake he and his opposing manager made in a game, and then manages the next game based on what he figured out. Randolph doesn’t need to be that extreme — though it would be nice — to be successful. But it probably wouldn’t kill him to take a second to see that Miguel Cabrera hits .329/.379/.565 against right-handers before sending in Takatsu (even if the funkiness of his delivery rivals George Clinton). He should recognize that constantly sending out Miguel Cairo and his .255 OBP in the two-spot isn’t going to score as many much-needed runs as perhaps bumping Beltran or Wright into that spot might. And it’s okay to give guys like Aaron Heilman and Juan Padilla a chance at some pressure innings instead of wasting valuable time on guys like Mike DeJean and Manny Aybar simply because they’ve been around longer. Randolph is not a stupid man, and everybody in the world makes mistakes at one time or another. Mistakes are not what has everybody calling for Willie’s head. Randolph consistently ignoring those mistakes, and continuing to make them over and over again without allowing a moment to pause and reflect on them, is the problem. It’s important for Willie to learn, quickly, that he’s no longer a player — that his gameplan is now about strategy and not about feelings and keeping your eyes and ears closed to criticisms and numbers. Or he’ll be back on the New York Yankees bench faster than you can say Lee Mazzilli. 238 Responses to “And Starting at Second-Base…”Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. Lucky Seven? »» |
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How original of you to point out. Can’t you be bitter w/o biting?
CI - you’re right, at least last year they had 14 - 11. That could happen again this year for ten days of the season. My overall point was that other than the ten days of April (actually 4/20 seems like the first day a fifth starter would be needed ~ if I did it right, and I may not have), there is likely to be an extra arm over the extra bench player, especially w the regulars we have.
Brilliant? At least I know it is a playoff “berth”.
Ahem, FW, if you have to ask… “Sentient” means “capable of perception, conscious.” I was using “sentient” to mean the opposite of “brain-dead.” That’s right, I was accusing certain Willie-bashers of being brain-dead, of not being able to use their perceptive faculties to apprehend reality. Of typing without really thinking.
As a rhetorical flourish, it was more effective left undefined. Alas. But then I suppose your friends have to explain jokes to you, too.
Soriano reportedly wants out by opening day. i don’t think it would hurt to call the nats.I no they prob wont trade till in their division but they want to give up an arm for him so i think we might be able to work out like a vz with a ok pitching prospect(Jason Scobie maybe)for one year of his services
I think it would hurt to call the Nats. I’m not even a Nats fan and Soriano is being VERY annoying. He’s such a little baby.
And with Delgado I think the offense is fine enough that it doesn’t need Soriano or his crappy defense… Considering what Bowden traded to get Soriano, it’s gonna take more than Zambrano and a crappy pitching prospect…
I would only take Soriano for free, and even then I wouldn’t be thrilled about having him, because we’d almost definitely PLAY him. The guy has a quick bat and strong wrists, but he’s almost 30 and has shown a distinct disinclination to adapt and an inability to learn vital parts of the game (patience, defense). As soon as that bat slows, his career is DONE.
Perhaps he’d win us a few more games than any of our other 2006 2B options, but if you look at his 2004-1005 road splits, you realize even that’s not a sure thing…
And oh yeah, I forgot, a reason he wants to levae the Nats is not because of the 2nd base thing but being in the NL bothers him so we wouldn’t be helping him anyway…
The Mets already have a 2B with lots of holes in his game. Soriano isn’t in the Mets plans and the Mets aren’t in Soriano’s either.
For all the guys that killed Randolph for hitting Wright too low in the lineup, look at what Howe did to Matsui (and the team) by hitting him too high in a lineup (#2 as a roookie!).
Last year the Mets couldn’t give away Cliff Floyd. After two disappointing years with the Mets, it seemed a foregone conclusion that he’d be traded for Sammy Sosa. Luckly, it never happened and Floyd had one of his best years.
This offseason, it’s Matsui’s turn as the guy that can’t be traded. 2005 was a complete disaster for Matsui. He struggled to switch positions, stopped hitting, got hurt, came back and got hurt again.
Last offseason, I though Floyd would spend more time on the DL then the active roster. I was wrong. Right now there is little reason to believe Matsui can stay healthy and turn things around either. But I want him to prove me wrong. He’s shown enough flashes that he’s worth giving another chance (he can run well, gets to balls, and showed some pop his rookie year).
With $8M on the line, management will pressure Willie to showcase his talents. Unless someone has a monster Spring, 2B should be his to lose: Boone is too old, Kepplinger and Hernadez are too young, and Woodward is a super-sub. Mostly Matsui will hit from the 7th or 8th spot in the lineup. The Mets need him to be an average 2B, hit .270, turn his share of DPs, and not cause any trouble in the clubhouse.
I’ll sign up for that right now.
good post cj corner. i thin maybe Matsui is one of those guys who cant play when people expect him to. I mean your obviosly asking to much by hitting him 2nd in the order. Remember he was amazing in japan so its not like he has never played good. i think with us expecting him to fail he cant do worse than that so he has a great chance of at least exceeding our expectations and who knows with some confidence he might be able to be a solid player and be the floyd story of this year.
Matsui is terrible. Where were those supposed flashes. Even pitchers hit an occasional home run but that doesn’t mean that they have potential to be a good hitter. 2 years is enough for that bum. I’d rather see Piazza play 2b. its time to move on from Matsui. We can do better.
I’ve been reading a lot from all you rocket scientists about how bad a manager willie is, what he has to do differently, how the peanut vendors could do better, etc. etc. ad naseaum. So what is it - do you just want Pinella here already (another f…in Yankee) or is there somebody out there floating around that you would reccomend to take Willie’s place?
While you continue scratching and bantering at each other like a bunch of teenage girls - can somebody come up with someone who might be realistically available to manage? Anyone saying Backman? Carter????
The only manager I would want is Ken Obkerfell the triple A manager, he knows how to manage and has won some championships in the minors with talent. That would be an improvement of a manager, and not an ex yankee.
Fire Willie, In other posts I got to say I love what you say, you are very insightful in minor league info and other stats. But I have to say you are very defensive if someone does not agree with you and very immature, I am hoping you are some kind of 19 year old kid and you will mature more. All you do is attack a person if they disagree with what you write. Relax man and loosen up. Sorry to burst your bubble friend but you are not superior than anyone on this blog. I do want to continue seeing what you write and provide info on alot of stuff I would not know about with the minors. You also have too much love for minor league players. You go insane if we trade away a minor for a proven player. I am asking you to start to chill out and just respect other people on this blog and give the information you do in arguements, instead of trying to act like you are better than everyone on this blog, I am sorry friend, but you are not.
That would not be the antonym at all, as nasty as you want to be, I know what sentience is all about (as I explained, you used the word in improper context to what your thesaurus indicated to you as a good choice). So though you think you are both smart and funny, you’re neither.
Willie did the same damn thing, how is that any different? Plus he (Howe) had the courage, the balls, to bat DW high in the order in his first months as a pro!
Ken O, Hojo, Mook, for inhouse guys. Tom Kelly, Bud Black, (even davey pt II), as out of org options.
Shea~~ but you are? “proven”? I know what I’ve seen from minor guys that I like, I know what I’ve seen from the manager I hate, and I know I’ve never seen you bring anything to the table other than a criticism of me. So before you try to size me up and knock me down, why not post something actually “other” than something hurtful and unimportant. (BTW, “arguements” should be “arguments”, for your learning pleasure.)
Fire Willie that is how immature you are. First I complimented you by saying you are very insightful with your knowledge of minor league guys and you know the game. I said you need to grow up and not come at anyone who criticizes you and stop your nonsense of trying to be an english teacher. I enjoy your posts when you are talking about young guys and other players you are a bright guy but sometimes you act like you are the only person who knows anything on this blog. So why don’t you grow up and stop acting like a little immature kid, unless that is you are under the age of 25 then I can understand why you get so defensive when someone challenges your comments.
Fire Willie, you have said you go to minor league games, can you give me any info on Ken O, cause like you I mentioned him to replace Willie, but that is just based on what I have read about him, could you tell me if you have seen him and what type of manager he is. From what I read he is suppose to be the next big manager.
FW, you have a lot of nerve to criticize others as being hurtful. Gee wiz, just read you own posts, man! You can start by scrolling up where you called me a “d!ck.” If that wasn’t hurtful, what is? You’re not winning any fans in here by constantly attacking people who disagree with you or offer a different point of view. Then, when THEY get all defensive and feel the need to defend themselves, you call their comments hurtful? And hey, it’s not just me, there are a growing number of people in here who feel the same way and I see it post after post. Nobody hates you here, so why do you hate? In fact “Shea” and I and others have pointed out our respect for your baseball knowledge.
Lighten up, dude. Trust me, life is too wonderful not to enjoy, so please drop the anger already. It feels so much better to be considerate to people - try it, I know you’ll feel a lot better.
MFS71, thanx for the support there. He is probably some young little kid who feels upset when someone disagrees with him. One day he will mature and realize he needs to stop. Anyway we should move on.
Did anyone read that article in the post about David Wright?
Shea, your passive aggressiveness is intolerable. You give a backhanded compliment and then rail on me and I’m supposed to be thankful? Please… BTW, what have you contributed? And I’m allowed to be sarcastic when someone goes on a self-serving rant on how his insight leads him to believe that both Woodward AND Nady will make the team, duh.
Rich, he is very good. All that might be moot though since Little has yet to announce his coaches and he was under consideration along with Warthen. As far as I know, although I was away, LAD hasn’t hired anyone else yet. He’s been winning alot the last two years. Its harder to put into words how a manager does in a game than players, but I can tell you some things. In the games I’ve been to, he’s never had on-field instruction from an ump. He will run, hit and run, his lineups are solid. His pen usage is sensible. It is also different as a minor coach than MLB coach since there are some directives taken by a manager that they need to consider, such as play this 4A dude more, or we need to see this guy at such position, or Dude needs to pitch certain number of pitches, whereas MLB managers are only about the win. But in the games I saw his teams, they seemed well prepped, executed well, and his decisions were not bad. Managers in one game, I think, make themselves noticed more for dumb mistakes, like Willie, than for smooth sailing.
Thank you for the information on Ken O, Fire Willie. Seems like he would be able to handle our mets team very well. I did remember hearing that Little liked him, but I find it kinda strange that he has not put together his coaches together yet. Didn’t Willie have all the coaches hired by this time last season or is it common for new managers to wait this long to hire coaches. Any word if the mets will promote HoJo as hitting instructor if the Mets get off to a slow start, not a big fan of Rick Down.
Rich, I haven’t heard anything about Down be asked to leave. The only thing was ALomar and Manuel switching. The only one I don’t like is Acta, I think he’s terrible as 3rd base coach. I don’t know much about the inner workings of a 1st base coach or bench coach, but its obvious when a 3rd base coach is bad when he doesn’t account for a great arm or a slow/poor runner. What don’t you like about Down? Hojo would be a great influence on the staff somewhere, I agree.
Was the info on Ken O helpful? I don’t really know what else to say. If I think of something more clearly I’ll let you know. Little interviewed both Warthen and Obie, but I haven’t heard anything at all. I don’t think its usual, to answer your question, but the Dodgers haven’t been very normal recently. I don’t have too much confidence that they know what the hell they’re doing, but it would be smart of them to hire them, since hte Mets are locked into RPete and others…
Actually, you’re NOT allowed to be so sarcastic or nasty and call someone a “d!ck” or “self-serving”. From the Geeks’ Guidelines:
“Don’t get into a fight in the comments. There are plenty of Mets message boards out there that will apparently tolerate your crap; we will not. If you start a pissing match with someone else on this site we will delete your posts. If you continue this behavior you will be banned from commenting.
Note that arguing a point about the Mets or baseball, etc. is fine. Healthy debate is what being a baseball fan is all about. Debates become problematic when they degenerate into name-calling and mudslinging. Don’t let it happen.”
Fair warning, FW: If you EVER call me a derogatory name in here again, I will complain to the powers that run this site.
Yes all the information you gave me was very useful Fire Willie. I just wanted to hear your opinon on how he ran the team and how the way he used his team like bullpen and pitch hitting, you gave some good info on how he did that. I agree Acta is a horrible 3b coach and we should look into finding someone else to be our 3b coach. I do not like Down just cause I think he could work harder on helping Reyes, Diaz. He also should have went over Beltrans hitting and pointed out how much he was swinging wrong when he came up to bat. I mean during games Keith would acknowledge these elements so I just started to dislike Down, because of it. I would love to see HoJo on the team somewhere, and I just know he is a hitting instructor so that is another reason why I asked if Down could be fired.
Sure thing, “Shea.” No one here deserves to be brow-beated or called names in that way over their comments.
Whoa MetsFanSince71, you and Fire Willie get into debates all the time. You guys both have to move on. He called you some names just move on. You do not have to complain to the powers who be. The issue will be resolved between the 2 of you like every other time you guys get into it on here. I do not want to see you guys keep going at it over some stupid issue.
And sorry if it looks like I am taking sides. I talk to both of you guys on here, just think it would be stupid to complain and then lose either one of you guys input on situations. You 2 can reslove it on here. Let you guys both cool off your heads and then talk it over and get back to what we always do and discuss Mets Baseball.
I agree, Rich. From what I’ve read, HoJo has had a very positive effect on Wright, for one. In fact, I would have no problem making him the hitting coach - BUT do you feel he has enough experience right now?
Rich, I remember Keith saying Jose would “step in a bucket” when he hit from the left side. Thought that was funny, but true. Hojo would be a great impact and seeing him there in Sept on the bench seemed to enthuse some of the players, Wright particularly.
I didn’t call you one, I asked you not to be one, and self serving is an adjective, I used it to describe a rant, not a person. Bc I counter your points on baseball, and your frustrated about it, doesn’t mean my counters are inappropriate. In asking you not be one, it was bc I made a baseball point and your counter was that I needed to check facts due to a slip of the mind, each one was my parent’s faves, so I confuse the two constantly; so I asked you not to be one.
Nothing in the guidelines prohibit sarcasm, which where I come from is humor. Grow thicker skin if you can’t deal w humor realted to posts that are watered down. Do you really think Nady and Woody are issues?
My frustration has NEVER stemmed from you disagreeing with me, FW. The frustration lies in your tone. Simply put, there’s a right way and a nasty way to respond in a debate, friend. Just about everyone here chooses the former, while you consistently choose the latter. More than once, I have tried to take the high road with you - something you neither understand or appreciate.
I won’t even get into your useless semantics about nouns or adjectives - it’s still mud-slinging the way I see it.
HoJo was always one of my favorite players (I am a young guy here) So I would love for him to be there. Plus Wright loves him, and I believe he was the hitting coach for Reyes also before he came to the majors. Diaz also had success hitting in the minors when HoJo was his coach so I just threw that out there. Hopefully the mets will do the right thing and find this guy a job on the team.
Rich, when people were throwing it out there in around August, they were saying also to fire Down and hire Hojo. It wouldn’t be a bad thing; although IIRC Floyd said that Down had helped him be steady last year, but I may remember that wrong. Before last year, the Ken O Hojo tandem were in Bing, when Wright was there mostly, even Reyes. I forget if Diaz played under him too. 03 was in StLucie for Ken and Hojo.
71, I think I’m very pleasant, but just bc I don’t use words like “Gee wiz”, like you, doesn’t mean they are nasty in tone. You’re delivering news to me, I thought we was cool. Guess not…
O then I might be wrong on the Diaz factor. I thought in 04 they were in Norfolk when Diaz played there for a full season. I know he hit .300 down in Norfolk when he went down this last season. I got the years wrong for the Ken O and HoJo, I thought 02 they were in St Lucie, 03 Binghamton and 04 and 05 in Norfolk, so forget the Diaz comment then.
Floyd did say good things about Down, but I figured he had to cause he was having such a great season so how could he knock the guy. I just don’t like Down so I guess it is just a personal thing more than a team issue.
Ditto, HoJo has ALWAYS been one of my favorites (quick side note: the only gripe I ever really had with Davey Johnson’s strategy involved HoJo - why in the world did he have Hojo bunting in the 9th of WS Game 6???). Anyway, I had the chance to meet HoJo down in ST many moons ago - I’m not such a young guy anymore, it was when the Mets trained in St Pete! He took the time to get out of his mini-van, sign autographs for everyone and chat a bit. It’s funny how even a 10-minute encounter with someone leaves a nice impression. I still have that autograph, with his distinctive “20″ after his name.
should been “20″ and no ? mark, sorry
I have a Hojo 20 on a pennant or yearbook, I forget, but the 20 made me remember. He is still holder or on leaderboard on alot of alltime MET records.
The way they have the 86 guys in the minors, he’s a very sensible pick to have in the big club. I don’t see why not.
Rich, I talked w Ken once and he always talked of his players in a collective we, whereas Willie refers to his players as either his or not his. A subtle difference, but telling nonetheless.
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