Oh please let this be true.
If tests show Mike Cameron has no lingering vision problems resulting from that sickening outfield collision he had with Carlos Beltran in August, the Mets will trade him to Padres by the week’s end and, it appears, then pursue a trade for Marlins left-handed slugger Carlos Delgado.
[..]
Another person familiar with the club’s strategy said the Mets intend to use Nady primarily in right — thought by the Padres to be his best position — and then pursue a deal with the Marlins for Delgado to add the offensive firepower they lacked last season, at first base.
The presence of Nady appears to be something of a safeguard for the Mets because he can also play first base. If they are unable to acquire Delgado, the Mets can use Nady at first base, platoon him with left-handed-hitting Mike Jacobs and then try to make right field the position that will provide the added offense.
Talk amongst yourselves.
I don’t know who the source is for this story but I find it hard to believe the Mrlins or the Mets would make this kind of deal in their own division. Plus, now that the one position player trading chip is gone, who do we deal?
One time I had a wet dream.
It was nowhere near as fulfilling as this fantasy.
Like the Temptations said, it’s just a Ball of Confusion!
Wow, Eric, if that’s true about Delgado, I’ll be happier than Mo Vaughn eating wings at Scores!!!
Allow me to speculate… that means Victor Diaz would be part of the package for Delgado, I would assume with Heilman or Seo.
I tend to think Victor Diaz could be moved here. Mike Jacobs is also a possibility, as he has no role if the Mets acquire Delgado. Maybe Diaz or Jacobs and Seo or Heilman.
As for acquiring Delgado, it would be a great move. The huge upgrade offensively this team needs.
How far will Petit shove it up the mets ass every year for FLA?
If the Mets take all of Delgado’s money, I say this trade takes only Diaz and Bannister plus another fringe prospect.
Delgado’s a great hitter, but he’s also, pardon my French, a giant douche.
Just thought i’d throw that in, along with injury prone, no glove, egocentric, malcontent in his declining years, with an albatross of a contract.
I’d take Delgado in a heartbeat! He’d be the huge impact bat the Mets need. BUT, I would then STILL try to get Sorianno as well.
Whoa, Emad!!
Delgado 2005:
.301 AVG - 33 HRS - 115 RBI
This was a declining year??!!
No. I’m talking about the final two years of his contract. With his elbow issues, it could be a problem in the coming years.
Don’t get it twisted. I want him, but I have certain concerns… like how will I reconcile my disdain for Delgado with my love of the Mets?
Anyone else feel like Delgado should rot somewhere else after talking all that smack? A Jacobs/Nady platoon would be perfect at first as Nady kills lefties and we’ll just have to figure something out in RF (Diaz, trade or Free Agent) until Milledge is ready. We’re finally a young team, and now we’re talking Molina for who knows how much, Delgado at $44mil for 3 years, and wagner at $48mil for 4 years (from what I heard)? Scary. I do really want Wagner by the way, but can we not let the new tv station dictate every decision made, especially smack talk Delgado?
My apologies, Emad.
When Delgado hits his first grand slam in a Mets unifrom to beat the Braves, I’m sure you’ll feel much better about his other issues :)
Remember-this is the same Delgado who refused to stand for the Star Spangled Banner. I’d rather have Jacobs, with a bright future and higher ceiling than Delgado.
But wait, didn’t Jacobs play CATCHER? SO COULDN’T WE DEAL DIAZ AND SEO AND KEEP JACOBS AT CATCHER so we won’t have to pay another 40 mil for Molina/Hernandez/Jojima? That’s a fucking thought!
Gary, I hear 4/40 on Wagner, if that makes you feel better (although I also heard Cameron was to only go for a middle of the order bat).
All good points Gary, but am I the only Mets fan who feels this club is 2-3 pieces from being a REAL contender? Am I ther only Met fan tired of waiting on prospects to arrive?
Getting Delgado would still keep a nice blend of youth-experience on the Mets.
As for Wagner, what choice do we have? The Mets do not have any flame-throwing closer in their system in the foreseeable future - and evidenced by Looper, they badly need a lights-out guy like Wagner.
Am I the only one who doesnt want Delgado. Do not get me wrong hes a tremendous talent and deff could use the bat, but he doesnt want to play in NY.. he turned down our offer which was higher then Floridas. He bad mouth the mets during the season and his agent is a fucking moron. Lets go after Soriano that way we wont have to face the guys we trade away every year.
Delgado was only paid 4mil this year, so he’d be 3/48 mil.
Looking at Delgado’s numbers in Toronto, I honestly have no idea how he hit as well as he did in Florida in 2005. I was thinking his avg would be much lower and his power ratios would be a bit lower — like 33 HRs in 162 games. Maybe he’s still improving in his early 30s, but I expect at least a little regression.
Of course, he’d still help our lineup immediately. If the Mets instantly put Jacobs back at catcher, Jacobs could be our platoon guy with Castro. It would be an extreme choice — very sub-par D, excellent bat. Failing that, we have to trade Jacobs — either as a big part of the Delgado deal, or to get something else we need.
As for Alfonso Soriano, here is how I think he would perform for the Mets in 2006: .258 / .285 / .415, 22 HRs, below average defense. This is not even worth what it’ll cost to pay him, much less the trade pieces.
This unforunately has been misconstrued quite often. Delgado refused to stand during “God Bless America”, and he did so because he does not support the war. You can be sure that he supports the troops, but this was his way of showing his disapproval of the war in Iraq. He received permission from the team to do so, and was quoted last offseason as saying that if his new team wanted him to stand he would have no problem doing so.
Let’s look at this another way: the Mets need to replace the Piazza of old. That’s to say, a strong impact, clean-up hitter who can carry a team. Is that really Floyd? Nope. Beltran? Nope. Wright? Maybe, but not now.
Who else is available out there besides Manny (who would be a greater risk than Delgado) to fill the void?
Delgado makes the whole lineup better IMO.
This is very true, but does he want to play here. he turned down more money from the mets to go to Florida, I dont know if he would be happy here and let it affect his perfomance.
On top of the back loaded contract, the acquiring team in a deal would have to compensate for the amount of taxes owed on the contract, since FLA doesn’t have a state income tax. How much tax is on 48 mil?
Also in defense of Delgado’s attitude: his complaint about us when he chose the Marlins was that Minaya played the “Latino!” race card too heavily with him. So it doesn’t sound like he’s a whiny douche, just a very principled guy.
The only other comment I heard from Delgado was that he thought the Marlins had a better team than us in 2005; and, on paper, I’d agree with him.
What country do we live in where a guy can’t stick to his beliefs? Last time I checked, it’s a FREE country. Who really cares if Delgado doesn’t stand during an anthem or song? What does that have to do with performance? If Giambi can be welcomed back in NY as a liar and cheat, then Delgado’s beliefs would be a non-issue here. Plus, from what I’ve read, those beliefs haven’t diminished his standing or respect with the players in the clubhouse.
Hey, look no further than Manny or Pedro. Do you think any Red Sox fan ever worried about their antics off the field considering how they delivered ON the field??
Call me crazy, but I don’t like it… The Mets freed up an additional $12 million today by trading Cameron and not picking up options on Ishii and Heredia. Add that to $16 million from Piazza and $3.5 from Looper and you have $31.5. Why Delgado when you have a $800,000 platoon in Jacobs and Nady at firstbase? They should go hard after Adam Dunn. He just turned 26, he’s lefty, he’s arb eligible so the Reds are likely to move him, and had a 927 OPS last season. The Reds need pitching and the Mets have it. Include 2 of Petit/Seo/Heilman and Trachsel. They can then go out and sign Millwood or Burnett for the 5th slot, and Furcal to play second. With the added punch you can live with Castro and someone else behind the plate.
The Mets could then sign Dunn through his arb years and first couple of free agent seasons and they would have a nice, young offensive core with Wright, Reyes, Furcal, Dunn and Beltran along with the firstbase platoon. If Nady puts it together in 2006 he can play RF in 2007 with Dunn moving to LF when Floyd is gone.
Why would you tie that money up in Delgado who turns 33 next season and is due $48 million over 3 seasons?
I personally don’t want Mr. Delgado, and I personally think the lineup from last year with little change (2B, C) is solid enough.
But wait, didn’t Jacobs play CATCHER? SO COULDN’T WE DEAL DIAZ AND SEO AND KEEP JACOBS AT CATCHER so we won’t have to pay another 40 mil for Molina/Hernandez/Jojima? That’s a ####ing thought!
Delgado didn’t want to come here last year and is not the offensive player Manny is. Platoon Nady and Jacobs at first and offer anything but Heilman or Milledge for Manny.
Maybe Nady would still be used to platoon w Delgado. Delgado v lefty: 234/308/461. v righty: 326/431/626. Thats a shitload of cash to pay a malcontent.
I heard it amounts to an extra Mil per. Sounds about right…
Remember also that a lot of the Delgado issues about the Mets appeared to be coming from his wacky agent who blind-sided the Mets last winter.
I’m not at all sold on Adam Dunn. Good power numbers, but a lifetime average of .246 with RISP is pitiful for a middle-of-the lineup guy. And you’re also virtually guaranteed record-setting strike out numbers.
I would pass on Dunn.
Pass on Delgado folks. In 2 years time we’ll all be kicking ourselves saddled with yet another contract NOBODY will take while Jacobs/Diaz/Petit/? is just arriving in Florida. Delgado is a DH waiting to happen. He should go to the AL..
Sure I agree with most of you that Delgado would be a great impact now, but that is a big contract to pick up. I think i would rather place money on Dunn. He’s 7 years younger, than Delgado. He can play left, right and first, and has great power.
As for Jacobs at catcher, from what i heard he was never a good defensive catcher, and after his injury he doesn’t have a very good arm.
Lineup like:
ss reyes switch
cf beltran switch
3b wright right
rf dunn left
lf floyd lleft
c hernandez/molina/jojima right
1b jacobs/nady left/right
2b matsui/hernandez/kepp right
pitcher
I actually respect him a lot for the courage it took to not stand, especially in his walk year. if the metswould only go 4/52 last year, how could they go 3/51 (w tax) this year? Fla would have to kick in some $$, and ask for little in return (nady).
No offense to anyone but I dont think the mets are going to win a championship next year. for that we shouldnt go out and trade for Delgado. Maybe if we keep all our chips we could develop our own power hitter (Jacobs). I dont want to see the kids we trade for this guy haunt us every time we play them, cause you know if we trae them we will be haunted by these guys. We should sign Furcal and AJ Burnett. Thats the only way I see this team making the playoffs next year.
I’d love to have delgado. I hate to see yet another bunch of good mets prospects develop on th Marlins. X makes much more sense as a platoon for Jacobs at first than as an alternative to Diaz who seems to have the same upside and downside and is also a Righty… so im not exactly sure why the Cameron trade would be opening us up for the Delgado trade. Is it just the freeing up of $?
No offense, Rich, but given some of the borderline teams that did make the playoffs this year, you can’t say the Mets couldn’t win it all next year - just not as they’re currently constructed. Unlike other sports, it’s much easier to leap to the front of the pack. Anything is possible in this sport. Also, the Mets are a big market team and shouldn’t be waiting for every “can’t-miss” prospect to develop. Prospects are just that, prospects who more times than not falter in the majors. And the Mets have a long history of that.
Frankly, it’s been 20 YEARS since we won it all and I’m tired of watching the Yankees and Braves be right there year after year after year….
I like Delgado FOR his brains and politics, actually, but ultimately that contract’s a REAL scary one. I’m not sure how we would make it worrk to our benefit to get him. If we’re going to saddle ourselves with a massive contract and lose prospects, why not just take the for-sure Hall-of-Famer in Manny?
That being said, I don’t mind losing Jacobs in this deal for Delgado. He had an explosive start, but you can count scores, SCORES of 3-month wonders over the history of baseball who went on to do NOTHING. Placing the mantle of !B of the future on him is nice and all, but to my eyes, has really proved absolutely NOTHING about hitting in the majors over the long-term. We’re in a perfect “sell high” position on him.
Well, MF 71—the thing is do you wanna bet the next 4 years all on next season? Or do you want to build a real-deal dynasty. And be there year after year. We get Delgado between him and Pedro we basically have to win it all next year. Because ‘06 and ‘07 we’ll be saddled with huge contracts for declining players. (Although I think Pedro has proven he’s pitcher enough to be effective all 4 years if healthy)
The philosophy that you have to eat the last fews on a contract to get a top notch player has sunk this team year after year. Seems like there’s an annual $40 million has been tax on the Mets. And you can’t win with that unless you’ve got a $200 million pay roll
Sorry Metsfansince71, but I just dont see why you would want a guy who doesnt want to play for the mets. if he did he wouldve signed. the guy is deff moody and id suspect he wouldnt play as hard for the team he didnt want to be on. also how you know our prospects wont do anything? If this were a trade for a guy on a team we didnt have to face 18 time a season then id do it, but would you be prepared to see these guys cost us games in a season? I know I wouldnt want to enjoy that. If our prospects work out then we could be like the braves and yanks and be there every year for 10 years you are just tryin to get a quick fix relax and see what happens.
My favorite part of this story is this quote:
“Another person familiar with the club’s strategy…..”
Familiar with the club’s strategy? Couldn’t this be, um, all of us? Even the morons? Let’s not get our panties in a knot over this one, shall we?
Sure, Adam Dunn would be nice.
Are you all prepared to trade Milledge for him?
Okay, that’s what I thought.
Points well taken, Mark and Rich. But tell me, beyond Jeter and Mariano, what impact prospects have the Yankees really developed? That team is a revolving door of imports.
I’m not suggesting selling the farm, but more often than not, prospects are trading chips. Maybe Delgado isn’t the answer, but clearly the Mets need an offensive improvement and with the exception of Milledge and MAYBE Diaz, I see no real offense coming from within right now.
Omar can be smart and build a contender at the same time. IMO, this team (and most of its fan base) wants to move beyond rebuilding years.
They also developed Posada, Petitte, Bernie and you can say Ramiro Mendoza when he was healthy. Yes its not alot of players, but we dont need to give up all our prospects. at least you have the right guys not to trade in Milledge and Diaz, but for some reason I believe that Petit could be a good pitcher for us, not the ace but a good pitcher.
True, Rich, but these are the Mets! Who was the last prospect we traded that really burned us or that we sorely miss?
But moving beyond Delgado for a minute, I also have no problem trading prospects for YOUNG proven major leaguers. Why hold a prospect when you can get the same value right now and for years to come? It’s a good debate.
You have a point there Metsfansince71. We havent really developed to many guys, sadly the last guy we traded that was good was Jason Bay. On your other point I wouldnt mind trading our prospects for proven young talent guys. just want to keep Milledge.
Most of the fan base wants to move beyond the rebuilding years? What traded prospects do we sorely miss? It seems to me that at least every other argument regarding Delgado today is against getting him and older/big contract players in general so not everybody is just 100% ready to forfeit the last 3 years of building the team, sorry. Oh, and I don’t miss Scott Kazmir the incredible.
Wait a sec, yes I do
Not sure if anyone mentioned but as a veteran traded in the middle of a multi-year contract, Delgado would have the right to “demand” a trade at the end of the season ala Javy Vasquez.
If he demanded a trade he could be hard to move with his salary. If we couldn’t move him he could change his mind or he would become a free agent. Of course as a free agent he would never get 2/$32m or whatever it is so he would probably just return & be grumpy. But if he did go FA we’d get two draft picks.
VERY good point, CP, and I don’t believe anyone has thought of that!
However, IF Delgado thrived here and the team did well with him, I think it would be a non-issue. As you point out, if he did request a trade, the downside for the Mets wouldn’t be all that terrible.
I’ve been reading all your thoughts, but I haven’t seen anyone state what I think is really going on in here. The Marlins wanted Nady and will trade us Delgado for him (and another prospect). The Mets are only getting Delgado to trade him to the Red Sox straight up for Manny. Obviously, Boston wants a big bat to replace Ramirez and they didn’t want Cameron. The trade today was just Omar’s grand scheme to get the player he’s wanted all along.
If this trade is a Cameron for Nady, Nady for Delgado, Delgado for Manny masterpiece, Omar will make this offseason a success on the sheer entertaining, scheming, drama scope of such a transaction.
I think landing Delgado and putting Nady in RF and signing Wagner makes us the favorite to win the NL East next year. Delgado had a terrific year in a better pitcher’s park than Shea -plus Shea doesn’t kill lefty power hitters - so his performance last year should be repeated.
Before two years ago (when he had a freak accident I believe), he never missed any significant time. And, he was considered one of the top hitters in all of baseball.
He will make the entire line-up better and I salivate at the thought of Wright hitting infront of Delgado!
I think most of the problems that happened last year were the responsibility of Delgado’s agent, you cannot fault him for that.
As far as the not standing for God Bless America - here is my opinion, and, sorry to chest-thump, but as a former Marine who fought in Iraq, if I don’t have a problem with it, no one should. The man is entitled to his opinion, this is America afterall, in fact, Delgado never called attention to this silent protest himself - a reporter noticed it when he was in town facing the Yankees and called him on it. SO, it is not like he was running his mouth and making an Ass of himself like Sean Penn. I think the man has principles and has been a great character and team guy no matter where he goes.
I personally hope we nab him and look forward to next year’s post season!
Well said, sweetlew and thanks for your service to this country.
I like the idea of the crafty maneuvering (Nady -> Delgado -> Manny), not so much because I want to see Manny here but because of the tremendous cojones (not to mention, acumen) it would prove Omar has. As Mets fans, we shouldn’t just *want* to believe in Omar, we GOTTA believe!
However, assuming that Delgado doesn’t turn into another freaking Mo Vaughn, the thought of Wright/Delgado/Floyd reminds me enough of HoJo/Strawberry/McReynolds that it makes me want to stroke my Randolph.
Hopefully, Omar IS up to some chess-like three-moves-ahead thinking and amazes the crap out of us during these next few weeks. I also hope that in doing so, he proves that the days of deals like Zambrano for Kazmir are a thing of the past.
While we’re at it, let me throw this out- think of Heilman as the next Isrinhausen… how badass would it have been to have Izzy taking the ball in the 9th these last few years instead of “Blew Another One” Benitez and “God Damn You” Looper? We tried him as a starter, he didn’t work out, we sent him packing and now he’s tearing it up for the dreaded Cardinals. Anyone remember who was the pitching coach for the A’s that helped make Izzy what he is now? Mmmyeah.
How about we hang on to Heilman, let Peterson make an Isringhausen out of him and that way, when Wagner’s done playing here, he can pass the torch to our homegrown closer?
As it is, ESPN’s early Power Rankings for 2006 (click here) have the Mets listed as #6 overall and say that we “could be the team to beat in the NL East”. I think we’re on the right track for exactly that and then some (barring any bonehead moves, tragic injuries or freak developments of Knoblauch’s Palsy)- and if Wright turns into our Mike Schmidt, Milo into our cokeless Strawberry, Petit into our Pettite and Heilman into our Izzy-who-wasn’t-traded (for-Billy-freaking-Taylor), New York is going to forget all about those clowns in the Bronx and there shall be Blue, White and Orange flags all OVER NYC! Ummm… in addition to the city’s flag.
Bravo, sweetlew….couldn’t have said all that better myself - and in such a witty way!!
The only thing I take issue with is Heilman. If you’re saying to groom him for the future, that’s fine. Make him the set-up guy. But we need a bonafide, experienced closer NOW and I think it’s gonna be (and should be) Wagner (by the way, his latest comments seem to have him leaning towards the Mets; he’s concerned about the Phils losing Urbina and retooling and now thinks the Mets have a brighter future). Side note: The NY Post is reporting today that the Mets met with BJ Ryan yesterday here in NY. Younger I know, but I’d still take Wagner over Ryan because of the experience factor.
And if we should get Delgado, I’d hold him and forget about Manny. Delgado will make less over the remainder of his contract and would be (from what I hear) a far, far better guy in the clubhouse. Yes indeedy, Beltran-Wright-Delgado-Floyd has a very VERY nice ring to it!
follow-up: the witty compliment was meant for Flushtered! but I like sweetlew’s insight as well
I’m with you, my friend! As I said, have Peterson work with him now so that when Wagner’s done, it’ll be a seamless transition.
Could even have the kind of ring to it that gets awarded for October excellence. I’m also on board with keeping him and letting someone else deal with MannyBeingManny.
btw- I changed the name for two reasons: 1-) “Flushtered” was initially meant as a pun involving “Flushing” and “flustered”, as I’m sure you figured out… but then I realized that it sounds like “Flush turd” and having grown up hearing the joke about “Whaddya think of Flushing New York? / I think it’s a great idea! wokka wokka wokka!”… yeah. 2-) I’ll be kicking off my own Mets blog soon (http://www.gottabelievers.com). Definitely not going to try to compete with MetsGeek but instead serve as “something to read as well”. Put it this way, reading MetsGeek would be like having a conversation about baseball with Peter Gammons whereas reading GottaBelievers would be like having a conversation with the drunk dude you met while in the smoking area on the mezzanine concourse overlooking the Corona ambulance in the parking lot.
I am laughing my a** off at this because it’s sooooo true!!!!
Honestly guys, who would you rather have, Manny or Delgado? My vote is for Delgado. Manny is the better hitter but between his even larger contract, his mercurial ways and his lackadasical defense, it’s just not worth it. Delgado seems to be a more professional and diciplined player and will probably be one of those guys who show up to play every day.
Also, the God Bless America thing should be thrown out the window. It doesn’t matter. If he doesn’t want to sing it, then so be it. If he was Athiest, would everyone still make a big deal of it?? Who cares?? I want these guys to play baseball, what they believe in doesn’t make a difference to me.
I would welcome Delgado. I think we would have won the division if we had him at first last year even with the crap side of the bullpen, the hole at 2nd, the outfield train wreck etc. He is the masher we are missing. If we can get him without trading Milledge or Heilman this would be slam dunkeroo. Viva Carlos.
barring injury you will, we all will…
I’m also fairly confident we’ll miss Huber as well (perhaps as early as this year)
To those who are suggesting that Jacobs should/could catch next season, forget about it. The reason he was moved to first is that he’s coming off shoulder surgery, which greatly reduced his throwing ability. Additionally, he was never a particularly good defensive catcher in the first place, he made it to the majors because of his offensive output.
The Delgado trade will only work for me if the Mets don’t have to give up Heilman or Seo, two of the biggest brighspots on their pitching staff last season, both with high talent ceilings for years to come. Let’s not rob Peter to feed Paul.
Sure I would. Milledge hasn’t shown the power to play a corner outfield spot. We’re locked into Beltran in CF. Milledge should be a chip in any trade. I don’t see where he fits into the Mets five-year plan.
What is Dunn’s OBP with RISP? - I’m sure it’s close to .400. And what’s the problem with a strike-out form your clean-up hitter? The guy has 50 HR power - an OBP of .400, and he’s 7 years younger then Delagado. Remember it’s not just what you do next year, but it’s what you do over the next 5 years that matters the most. Do you really want to watch another over-the-hill Mets team?
What would be the traded players needed for Delgado?
Nady & Jacobs for Delgado
On that note what would be needed for Soriano?
Benson, A. Hernandez, B. Bannister
reyes/soriano/beltran/delgado/wright/floyd/diaz/castro
martinez/glavine/traschel/seo/ heilman or zambrano
Buddha, I need to respectfully ask you: how in the world does adding ONE guy (Delgado) make the Mets an over-the-hill team??? Did we think that when the Mets added Mex or Carter in the 80s as final pieces to compliment a very good young team? I think we’re in a very similar situation: adding a solid veteran to a good young core group.