You do the drying, I’ll do the dishes
Who’ll do the crying when all the wishes don’t come true
Uh-oh. Trouble in Willie’s Paradise? I wonder how will this affect the Willie Randolph bobbledhead day.
Randolph has been given a honeymoon by the allegedly notorious flesh-eating New York press, and with his background in this town, that’s understandable. But where the first-year manager received much credit when the Mets went on the 9-2 late-August tear that propelled them to a season-high eight games over .500, he’s received little of the blame for the club’s collapse, even as he stubbornly sticks with Braden Looper as closer. As blame goes, Randolph is the rubber to Art Howe’s glue.
I read the Post and News online with the hope of seeing some criticism of Randolph. Indeed, there were a 101 things that you could rightly slam Randolph on. Not one comment of the type. Even when the story turned to Cairo playing RF, they just quoted Willie about how he didn’t want Cairo sitting too long as he brings “energy” to the team. You would think that any writer who has more than a singile digit iq would rightly write a scathing article about what a moron Willie is.
As usual, the NYT gets it wrong. NY does not have “flesh-eating” press. Indeed, if the NY writers let a carpet munching carpetbagger off with a free ride, how much worse could it be.
I am thoroughly disgusted with the press. This is why more and more people read the internet, and less people watch the news or read the papers.
s.
Amen. The only flesh-eating that is done by the NY press is aimed at their socio-political opponents. They give Willie a pass because of political correctness.
“We are where we are because everyone has chipped in,” Randolph said. “I want everyone to feel that they’re a part of it.”
I love that quote. Cairo is a BIG reason we are where we are.
Willie’s love a scrappy middle-infielders shows two things
A) He has no clue why HE was an underrated championship calliber ball player (it’s called patience at the plate Willie)
B) Mike Jacobs will never reach he potential under Willie and will likely be traded and become the next Ken Singleton.
The whole article is skewered, however. So, Willies’ championship pedigree makes him beyond critique? Brooks prefers to blame the Wilpons which (I will admit that I am semi-shocked to write what’s coming next) is frankly not the case this year. The Wilpon’s have kept their tails out of it this year, and with a decent GM, the team has been focused on a developmental plan and keeping to it. After their interventions over the last couple of years, their absence is admirable (and more than needed!!!). Willie’s championship pedigree is based on soothing All-Stars egos and an enormous payroll. Too bad he has no salvageable experience working with younger players because he is needed to manage and has not sense of how to do that.
Basically any point Brooks might have had was thrown out with this statement. The “meaningful games” comment was made one or two years ago, not this year. And culture’s nice, but it’s not gonna win games for you. Knowing how to contract a lineup and managing your bullpen will.
Actually, the radio has been pretty merciless on Willie. WFAN’s Steve Somers has not held back at all with his dislike for Willie’s managing. The print press however are lurking around it — they do question the decisions but they do not get in the blame game yet.
My guess is that Willie’s free pass with print reporters will run out next year if the Mets suck again.
The Radio Stations get callers- instant feedback- they know they will have no credibility if they even try to defend Willie anymore.
The print reporters do not get the mail they used to get, and it’s probably heavily skewed towards people who see things like they do. Also the print reporters have a need to kiss ass whether they want to or not. They will not attack Willie until they are sure they can do it without having the players give thme the cold finger.
Ok I conflated “cold shoulder” with “middle finger”
The vapidness of this article is why I love metsgeek. But what do you expect from Larry Brooks, a hockey writer who was moved over to baseball while waiting out the stupid hockey lockout. During the lockout Brooks took the side of the players and demonized the owners. Good work, Larry. You probably have some Dukakis bumper stickers. Steve Somers is willing to let it fly in all directions. I don’t think he hangs out at Shea in the clubhouse and could care less what the players or the Wilpons think of him.
Vapidness - not a word you see on Metsgeek to often.
This off-season, the NY Mets franchise made some of the biggest free agent acquisitions since 1992’s “The Worst Team Money Could Buy”:
CARLOS BELTRAN: Not a TRUE superstar, but a proven run producer AND run scorer year in and year out.
PEDRO MARTINEZ: No longer a fire-baller, but still one of the best in the game…PERIOD.
As for those players from last season’s club:
JOSE REYES: First full, injury free season in the majors, and overall does a fantastic job in his role as lead-off man.
DAVID WRIGHT: First full season as a major leaguer, and exceeds ALL expectations, as he transforms into one of baseball’s premier everyday players.
CLIFF FLOYD: First complete, injury free season in quite some time, and delivers on all fronts (should also win a Gold Glove).
RAMON CASTRO: Comes out of nowhere to give this club some much needed clutch offense
BENCH PLAYERS: Guys like Anderson and Woodward stepped up big time in key spots where either a pinch hitter or utility fielder was needed.
PITCHING: Starting staff has been consistently good to great, and one of the best in the National League. Players whom this club gave up on the past two seasons like Heilman and Seo (and rightfully so based on their previous performances), seem to have found themselves.
Yet when taking into account all of the positive turn arounds mentioned above, this years team has only managed to compile a record of 71-75, with 16 games remaining on the schedule. It is VERY likely that this club will only win 5 or 6 of those games, giving them a final record of about 77-85 (if they win 6 and lose 10). This is ofcourse purely speculation, but certainly possible based on how absolutely dreadful this teams performance has been this month.
If this is the case, and all this year’s club is able to muster is about 77, maybe 78 wins, then where was the improvement? Last year’s club ended the season with a 71-91 record. I’m sorry, but if this year’s squad only manages to improve that by 6 or 7 games, and winds up the season about 7 games under .500, then HEADS MUST ROLL!
Randolph may have had no prior experience as a manager, but he has been in this game for a VERY, VERY long time, both as a player and coach. A complete novice should have been able to get this year’s club to about 4 or 5 games over .500 by seasons end. Now maybe that still happens. Then again, maybe a pack of wild stallions come rampaging out of my ass hole.
Bottom line is this: if this team finishes that far under .500 with a team that is OBVIOUSLY better then last season’s, Willie Randolph and his entire coaching staff (maybe with the exception of Peterson) must be terminated.
Willie has cost this team close games, absolutely, but hanging the team’s record on him is making him an unfair scape goat. His game management is a problem, but it’s probably not the biggest problem the Mets face. The press has a perspective of the organization we don’t have, and that may be coloring their opinion.
There’s been a lot of talk about the holes in the roster (1B, Bullpen, RBI Man) because we can all watch and quantify the players’ performances. If there are so many holes in the roster , it stands to reason that there are glaring holes throughout the organization; especially people we can’t observe. Obviously the scouting department is a mess and that’s being addressed, but there must be more.
et al get a pass for now.
Defense has been improved among the regulars from last year in both outfield and infield, so Alomar and Acta whould work another day…
Offense? Hitting? Game preparation? A HA! Here we see huge problems. Ask the questions, find a solution, act. Is Rick Down helping players fix holes in their swing? Is ANYONE learning how to lay down a decent friggin’ bunt? Do players have the information on the pitchers they’re facing? Do they absorb that? Who are the best advance scouts, and what’ll it take to get them?–>
Funny how you mention everything that has gone right, but nothing that has gone wrong. Looper’s ERA is a run higher this year than it was last year. After having a pretty good offensive year in 04, Matsui got injured and his OPS is 75 points lower than it was last year and that’s accounting for his ridiculously hot September. Beltran’s OPS is 165 points lower than it was last year. Cameron has missed a good portion of this year. Trachsel didn’t pitch his first game til August. Eyechart, and Cairo have both underperformed. Our main setup man struggled mightly and is now pitching for the Rockies. Our LOOGY couldn’t get left-handers out. Sure, the Mets should have forseen some of these things coming, but not all of them. Not only that, but the 2004 team had some fluke good performances of their own. Leiter, for example, was the luckiest pitcher in baseball last year and was top 10 in NL ERA. Wigginton was a league average hitter and this year he can’t even make the Pirates’ 25 man roster. In 04, Bottalico was generally decent, and this year he’s out of a job, etc.
Obviously, changes are in order, but this “do or die” approach to building a team is silly. Rome wasn’t built in a day people. For them to be successful, the Mets need to be patient and believe in their original plan. There are many reasons why the Mets of old have failed, but none as significant as the constant change of plans because of public criticism. Our record might not reflect it, but this team is a LOT better than the 2004 version, and more importantly the success we’ve had this year, is actually sustainable because unlike last year we aren’t only depending on older players.
Let’s face it, if Willie was managing the Atlanta Braves, they would be in last place. I can’t understand why he has this love affair with veterans and refuses to acknowledge that some of the young players are ready to play. It seems he only moves them up when the press brings it to the forefront like with David Wright batting so low in the order. His insistence on sticking with Looper as the closer makes me crazy just like keeping Ishii as a starter did. I wonder, does he do this on his own or does Omar direct him to stick with the veterans?
The question I have is would the Mets even think of replacing Randolph after this year. The answer is probably no, but…what if a high quality candidate is available? Just whom would such a candidate be…what about Lou Pinella?
Any thoughts???
I’m not saying that this club does’nt have holes. THEY DO! Plenty of them. I just wanted to focus on the many positives that, in my opinion, makes this team that much better than last season’s.
BTW Ricardo, I don’t think ANYONE (not even Beltran himself) can figure out why his numbers have fallen so far off, but I’m pretty certain that the pressure of being that main guy in the #3 hole has plenty to do with it. He has always been a #2 hitter, and has produced EXTREMELY well in that spot his entire career. Would he have continued that success here if placed in the 2 slot all season long? Nobody will ever get to know that, but I’d be willing to bet that his numbers would be MUCH better then they are right now. Also, Cameron’s absence has not hurt this club in the least. If anything, it has helped it. I don’t wanna hear any Cameron pom-pom waving simply because he hit over .400 for a month when he came off the DL initially. He eventually CRASHED back down to earth, and reverted back into the STRIKE-OUT machine we all know he is. The man is an out waiting to happen. ALSO, Trachsel’s abscence didn’t hurt the club, Randolph’s decision to keep Iishi in the rotation hurt the club. This starting rotation has performed VERY well this season, all things considered.
As for your “Rome wasn’t built in a day” comment, you should know that the only time that this franchise has managed to successfully build a competitive club from the bottom up (utilizing good scouting, building a good farm system, making quality trades and key acquisitions) was back in the early 1980’s. That’s a period of about 6 years from 1983 (when it began with Straw) to 1988 (last real competitive year in that run). Six years in forty three where this franchise could legitamately compete year after year. No one-year miracles like ‘69 and ‘73. No putting all yer eggs in one basket type of year like in 2000. A real baseball team that was built with a strong foundation.
IT HASN’T HAPPENED BEFORE OR SINCE THAT TIME!!! So don’t tell me to be patient when this franchise has, with the exception of a 6-7 year span, had absolutely no concept of how to build a winning team.
I didn’t want Randolph in here as manager in the first place because I thought that this club needed a hardened vet like a Pinella (and I know he was not available). Still, as a fan, I was willing to give him a shot. But month after month it was painfully obvious that this man, who has been in and around Major League baseball for so long, was virtually clueless as to how to manage a baseball team. This has NOTHING to do with him needing more experience. Hell, he should have made the necessary adjustments as the season went along. BUT HE DIDN’T! He keeps making the same moves over, and over, and over. And they always fail.
I stand by what I said in my earlier post. If this team ends up with a record that is 6 or 7 games under the .500 mark, then upper management needs to swallow it’s pride and fire the man they hired to head up this team: Willie Randolph.
If Pinella is let out of his contract the Mets better think hard about what they want to do. Do you want to wait to see if Willy ever figures out the game he has played his whole life or sign someone who is an obvious improvement? Maybe it will work out, I think Willy only got a 2 year deal, so after they suck again next year Pinella will have had a year off or will be coming off his TB contract.
Paladin: You are a 100% correct!!!
Well, considering that the Mets have started building a strong foundation and haven’t put all their eggs in one basket this year, I don’t see how you can’t be patient. Its one thing to be impatient because the Robbie Alomar’s, Tommy Glavine’s and Mo Vaughn’s of the world didn’t win in their first year, but its another thing to be impatient when the David Wright’s, Jose Reyes’ and Carlos Beltran’s didn’t lead the Mets to the pennant in what was basically their first year together. Since getting the job, Minaya has mantained that the goal is to build a team that can not only win now, but also that will continue winning beyond that particular year. In fact, here’s what he said in December during Pedro Martinez’s press conference:
As long as this is the plan, I’m willing to wait and right now the Mets haven’t given me any indication that they are changing this plan. They could have easily traded some prospects for a misguided chance. But they didn’t. They kept their prospects. I hate to repeat myself, but be patient. We are going to win. Our record might not reflect it, but we are very close to being a good team not only for next year, but for the rest of the decade as well.
Guys, forget Pinella for 2 reasons: 1. The Devil Rays have played very well in the 2nd half which would probably give Sweet Lou hope for next year. 2. If he did become available Steinbrenner would be over at his house having coffee with him in his kitchen and not leave until he was the new Yankee manager. I fear we are stuck with his royal Williness for at least one more year. Our only hope is that we add in the right players to make Willie’s poor game managing less of a factor. I was thinking about how often NYC teams have brought in unproven guys with decent players credentials who flameout. Bryan Trottier and Bud Harrelson come to mind. Willie looks to be in over his head…
I see where Davey Johnson is managing team USA with Lastings. Let’s bring back Davey.
Just like you hate to keep repeating yourself, Ricardo, when you say “be patient”, I hate to bring up a badly beaten dead horse in the 20 yr.old lefty fireballer who was traded away for a 29 yr.old 4 year vet who at that point (and to this day) had yet to learn how to pitch. He could THROW, but not PITCH. Two different things. And while that may have been the previous regime, he was our biggest pitching prospect in years, and with the right coaching may very well become a top pitcher in this league one day.
You also help make MY POINT by saying things like “Our record might not reflect it, but this team is a LOT better than the 2004 version”. Well if it is a LOT better then last season’s squad, then WHY DOESN’T THE RECORD REFLECT IT?!?
Shouldn’t the record reflect it? Donchya think so? I NEVER thought that this team was going to the playoffs this season. Even when they flirted with the prospect of taking the wild card in August, I still thought to myself that I would not be disappointed just as long as they continue to give a good effort and end the year over .500 (preferably 5-8 games over).
That’s not asking much from this team! Yet here they are, 4 games under for the first time since APRIL!!!!!!!! That is UNACCEPTABLE, and while I’m all for players having to take responsibility for not playing up to their potential, this manager has to take a great deal of the blame in this particular instance.
That’s just a fact.
Sorry, but this statement is simply untrue…
Record from 1969-1974: 510-454
Record from 1984-1989: 575-395
Record from 1997-2001: 449-362
Truly there were three “glory” periods in the Mets history and they are listed above (actually, in 1975 and 76 as well as 1990, the Mets weren’t all that bad, but you said six years so I tried to keep it close to that).
While the 80s were simply spectacular, the ‘69 and ‘73 Mets weren’t simply “miracles” and 2000 wasn’t an “eggs in one basket” team.
I agree, the Mets have had some absolutely sickening periods, but come on now, be reasonable…what team hasn’t?
I believe, like many of this sites contributors, that this team has a solid foundation and can win for years to come if they continue to build on that.
Like you mentioned, the Kazmir deal has nothing to do with the team’s current GM Omar Minaya so I don’t see how this is at all relevant to our discussion. Since being handed the job, Omar has repeatedly said that there is a plan and the plan includes building a core at the major league level and supplementing it using the farm system. I really don’t understand why you are so impatient. Basically, you are killing the team because historically they haven’t done what they are doing right now, and now that they are actually doing what you wanted them to do you are complaining because the results haven’t been there on year one. So exactly what is it that you want? Look, I realize that the team has made some mistakes in the last year, but come on. Compared to they’ve done right, those mistakes are meaningless.
Cairo and Minny 0-8 combined at 1stbase yesterday, Mike Jacobs sitting on the bench? Why is Cairo wasting valuable time at 1st base. I can see getting Minny some playing time since that is his position, but not Cairo.
1970: 83-79, 3rd place (6 back)
1971: 83-79, 3rd place (14 back)
1972: 83-73, 3rd place (13 back)
That was a glory period? Sure the team had more then enough talent to do better, but it never did. As for 1973, that was a FLUKE and everybody knows it. 1974-1983 the Mets never finished higher than 3rd, but spent most of their time in the Cellar.
As for 1997-2000 (I don’t count 2001 and neither should you), that wsa made possible by two people:
1) Bobby Valentine, who’s expert managerial skills made up for a team that without him (or someone as skilled as him) at the helm, would never have captured the wild card in any of those seasons, thus they would never have reached the WS in 2000.
2) Mike Piazza, who’s offense was key in putting this team over the top. True there were some good, solid ball players on this team. But that only makes them ABOVE AVERAGE at best. Mike pushed them just enough past above average to where they were able to get those wild card spots as a result. Put an average Major League catcher in his place for all those years, and see how many playoffs this team gets to.
1984-1988 (maybe even ‘89) were the ONLY years in which this franchise EVER truly contended, and even DOMINATED. 1987 can be thrown out as a result of the injuries that plagued that club that season. If they had the regular squad intact like in ‘86 and ‘88, they would have taken the East AGAIN.
That was my point.
Bring back Bobby Valentine?
GeekSoapBox believes only one man can save the Mets. Personally, anyone who could make it to the World Series with a starting outfield of Jay Payton, Benny Agbayani, and Timo Perez is one helluva manager.Meanwhile, Mets Geek leads a discussion…
Ricardo Gonzalez:
You have this annoying tendency to strategically take specific points out of my posts, and then blinly ignore the rest. How about tackling what I said afterwards:
“You also help make MY POINT by saying things like “Our record might not reflect it, but this team is a LOT better than the 2004 version”. Well if it is a LOT better then last season’s squad, then WHY DOESN’T THE RECORD REFLECT IT?!?
Shouldn’t the record reflect it? Donchya think so? I NEVER thought that this team was going to the playoffs this season. Even when they flirted with the prospect of taking the wild card in August, I still thought to myself that I would not be disappointed just as long as they continue to give a good effort and end the year over .500 (preferably 5-8 games over).
That’s not asking much from this team! Yet here they are, 4 games under for the first time since APRIL!!!!!!!! That is UNACCEPTABLE, and while I’m all for players having to take responsibility for not playing up to their potential, this manager has to take a great deal of the blame in this particular instance.”
Don’t you think that when I say that I neve expected this years team to make the playoffs, that that shows I am patient? How about when I said that I would not be disappointed just as long as they continue to give a good effort? I only expected them to end the season a few games over .500.
THAT’S ALL I WANTED! That would have showed improvement.
What they are doing right now not only shows a lack of improvement, but it goes a step further. It It makes me feel as if they’ve taken a step backwards. This was the year to finish above .500.
That’s all I wanted. It may still happen, but how many of us really believe that will happen with so few games to play?
I’m so glad to have found this site. I despise Willie as a manager, and even more I hate how the media’s completely rolled over for him.
This is really depressing. Even the one voice on WFAN that had been somewhat critical of Willie, Joe Benigno (sp?), has toned down the volume, and now is saying that overall Willie’s done a good job. (He even excused this 3-14 collapse down the stretch by saying, “Well, Piazza’s been out” — as if Piazza was a real presence in the lineup when he was healthy!)
The problem is compounded by several factors — 1) Minaya isn’t exactly anxious to admit his hiring of Willie was a mistake; 2) Wilpon pledged he’d let Minaya make the big decisions, so he won’t get involved, especially with someone as popular in the media as Willie and with Art Howe still being paid through ‘06 (and as if Fred would even have the balls to fire a black manager after just one season); 3) Minaya himself is a huge problem (Floyd for Sosa, anyone? How about Moises Alou?), so it’s not as if we at least have a smart GM who, when the time is right, will replace the manager (he’ll only do it if and when he feels his own job’s on the line and he can buy some time by throwing Willie overboard — but just as Fred would be reluctant to fire a black manager, he’d hesitate a hundred times before firing a Hispanic GM, so I can’t foresee that kind of pressure on Minaya anywhere in the foreseeable future).
Add to all that the fact that Minaya’s really putting his stamp on the organization, with the whole Dominican thing, the reshuffling of the scouting corps, etc, and one gets the sense that he’s going to be here for a very long time. And of course you’ve got a local media that loves Willie and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Minaya.
We’re doomed.
MEANINGFUL GAMES IN SEPTEMBER.
That was the organizational mantra this past offseason, and granted, I think we might have played exactly one or two games that were meaningful before spiraling into the funk we’re in now. But I can’t say I agree with all of this Willie “Gump” and “Wanka” bashing.
The most poigniant part of today’s post article was the last two paragraphs. When the organization sets the bars this low (ie. “meaningful games in September”), then it becomes too easy to not meet expectations, or at least to squander any opportunities to surpass them. I don’t believe this is Willie Randolph’s fault, or even Omar Minaya’s. The low expectations of only playing “meaningful games in September” has the stink of Fred and Jeff Wilpon all over it. And let’s face it, no fan campaign or bolt of lucky lightning is going to change the ownership or it’s meddling with the possible succes of this franchise.
Give Willie a break. Our problems start at the top, and materialize on the field. Braden Looper and a soft bullpen, plus deplorable production at first base and mostly nothing at all from second base are to blame. Low expectations will kill you in September, not “meaningful games.” Willie’s here to stay at least through next year, and he deserves at least that chance. And even though the Wilpons will always bother me, I do have fatih in Omar Minaya.
How about this for next year?
WIN IT ALL IN OCTOBER!
Its a little of everything. Underperforming players, inconsistent offense, managerial incompetence, shoddy defense, bad bullpen deployment and bad luck. I’m not going to copy & paste your entire post, but I’m don’t understand when you say that the Mets haven’t given a good effort during this span. I mean, yeah, we’ve lost a bunch of games, but we were in EVERY game, and we’ve been facing a lot of good pitching: Carpenter, Smoltz, Schmidt, Lowry, Willis, Beckett, Burnett, etc. Other than Carrasco the other day, we haven’t faced any scrubs. A couple improvements to our personnel, and a little bit more experience from our younger players and manager, and those tough losses could very well be victories next year. I’m not going to overreact about ten games. I still think that we are a couple of moves away from being a playoff caliber team next year.
You are kidding, right? I’ll confess that I wasn’t thrilled when the Mets hired him, but since getting the job in October, Minaya has made more good baseball decisions than bad ones. How exactly is he “a huge problem”? Seriously. Please enlighten me because quite frankly I think Omar has done a hell of a job. Sure, he’s not perfect, but who is?
I really have nothing to back it up, but I feel like we’re really only a chip or two away from fielding a better team. This collapse is pretty ugly, but we’re looking at whipped team with nothing left playing clubs that are in battle mode. Hence, we get stomped every day + night.
But if you think about it, most of our calamities come down to one or two missed opportunities a game. Bad relief, one bad Willie move, lack of a clutch hit. Willie, like it or not, isn’t going anywhere. That’s a problem as the guy really doesn’t know how to manage younger players, but whatever–alot of his bonehead moves wouldn’t have looked quite as awfull if the chances he took worked out. Despite everything, I’m still happier with Willie than Howe. But it’s ok to dream the dream so here’s my wishlist for 2006
1)Ditch Willie. Ok, it’s not gonna happen but I’d like to see us promote from within the org with our staff.
2) R-E-L-I-E-F. I’ve heard the stats, Looper hasn’t blown to many saves–but the guy has no out pitch. You want a closer that can get guys out, not hope they get themselves out. Nothing for me to say everybody else here hasn’t been screaming since day bloody 1.
3)Trade Floyd (and Cameron): You will never get more for Floyd than now. I like him, think he’s a real gamer—but the peaks and valleys are just to much to handle. You just can’t have a clean up hitter hit .200 for a whole month and you know there will be a few of those. Ditto for Cammie, his stats are always filled out by a few red-hot weeks over a season. I wanna see Victor Diaz + ??? in right/left. We need one more impact offensive player next year.
4)Pray for Carlos. He’s a religious man, maybe we could set up some kind of alter or something for Carlos during the off season. Take turns lighting the candles, leaving flowers…Joking aside, we gotta believe he’ll come through next year. Maybe if we score a big time hitter it will take the spot light off him.
5)Believe in our young guys! Just imagine how amazing Wright will be next year. And Reyes with Beltran behind him in the 2 spot. Victor Diaz 30+ homers! Dunno what we have in Jacobs, but I wouldn’t mind having him out there as well…