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June 29, 2005
Subway Swap? Joel Sherman says it might happen:
Gotta admit, Sheffield’s bat is pretty tempting. I don’t like the sound of “a package headed by Mike Cameron” though. Either way, its never going to happen. 36 Responses to “NY Post: Sherman: ‘El’ of a Deal!”Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. Ishiimania »» |
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Let’s compare the two players.
Hitting-Sheffield
Defense-Cameron
Baserunning-Cameron
Contract-Cameron
Being a likeable guy that I enjoy rooting for-Cameron
Not being an insufferable jerk-Cameron
Cameron has had a really good start to the season but that’s got a lot to do with the fact that he has a high BABIP (.358). Sheffield is a great hitter and will probably outproduce Mike by about .100-.150 OPS points the rest of the way. I don’t think that’s enough of an upgrade in that department to warrant trading Cameron, all things considered.
I could live with this deal if it was made straight up but not if the Mets gae up anything significant in addition.
With the Yankees being desperate buyers and the Mets in the drivers seat - this trade should be Sheffeild and a prospect for Cammy!
That said, I am torn on this one - I love Cammy and everything he brings, but I salivate about Sheffield’s bat between Beltran and Floyd!
Does anybody know what the differences in remaining contracts between these two are? I’d hate to end up giving Sheff money that could go to some young slugging 1B, or a closer. Then again, if Piazza leaves or resigns for beans and Glavine doesn’t get his option, we’ll have a lot of cash to sling around very soon.
That’s re-signs. Mah bad.
I really should read the whole article before I post. Nevermind.
I hate this deal to the very core. Which means it’ll probably happen. Hooray.
If the deal is merely Sheffield for Cameron and Cairo, I think I like it on the surface. I worry about Sheffield’s demeanor though, he is the kind of guy that could shut it down and not produce just because he is unhappy. I do like the fact that this trade should move Wright to the #2 spot in the lineup, which is where he should be anyway.
Cameron is over-performing offensively right now, I think Sheffield is a very significant upgrade offensively. I still think the solution to the Mets problem at first base is Diaz. The Mets absolutely should not give up a prospect in this deal. If they give up Humber, Bannister, or Petit in this deal, I hate it. Anderson is playing well, he could be stopgap at 2nd base this year until Keppinger is ready. Woodward is just as good as Cairo as a utility guy.
The notion that Randolph and Sheffield have a good relationship is nice, but I don’t think carries any weight at all, not with the kind of guy that Sheffield is.
Reyes, SS
Wright, 3B
Beltran, CF
Sheffield, RF
Floyd, LF
Piazza, C
Anderson/Matsui/Keppinger(eventually), 2B
Daubach/Diaz, 1B
No Way! Sheffield is all about #1, him. he has been unhappy on teams his entire career, and has forced trades by playing poorly (Milwakee, SD). Once on the Mets, he will demand a trade unless they rework his contract. let the Yankees keep the headcases in the bronx.
The more I think about this trade the less it makes sense - the only way I think we do it is if we insist on getting either Cano or Gordon and making it a bigger trade. Say Sheffield and Cano for Cammy, Cairo and pitching prospect (Bannister?) - or Sheffield and Gordon for Cammy, Cairo and mid-level prospect.
The only way we should assume the risk of Sheffield’s attitude is to get something positive (besides his bat) in return. As for as contract, if the Mets were to agree to pay his full salary (including the deferred money) I think he is happy.
Signing him long term would be stupid - he will be 38 when the contract is up and by 2007 I think Milledge will be ready to man RF.
That all being said, if Willie can get Sheffield to come to the park and play his heart out every day (which I think he can) and Sheffield decides he wants to prove something to the Yanks for dumpign him, we could get a monster second half from him. I mean the guy is a career .298 hitter who hasn’t hit less than 30 HRs in a full season since 1998. His presence in the line-up arguably gives the Mets the best line-up in the division.
In my lastest let’s talk up Piazza post - has anyone noticed how his bat has been coming around to respectability of late? During the month of June his has raised his average 20 points and his OPS over 30.
More pointedly, in his last 11 games, he hit safely in 8 of them (five times multi-hit), scored 6 runs, hit 4 doubles and 3 HRs, and drove in 6. Granted far from Piazz-esque numbers, but more than respectable for a catcher. BTW, he now has the highest OPS for any NL catcher and is third in the majors.
If he can continue to hit near this clip and Beltran shows that his 4 extra base hits and much improved defense in the past four games is not a fluke - the offense should show marked improvement without and additions.
Is everything always only about winning? Would you root for the Mets if they had Barry Bonds at ever position? I cannot root for Sheffield given his personality. And if the Meta acquired him they would lose my season tickets. It would be like the Vince Coleman era all over again - I just can’t root for teams with distasteful players on them even if they improve in the standing.
And I wish someone could explain me the need to trade a still somewhat young, productive, great guy in Mike Cameron. Mike Cameron shouln’t even be a thought - he should be part of the “core” (as Minaya has said) and left alone for a few years. (Of course, he should be playing center and Beltran right but unfortunately Beltran is not a team player in this respect, something no one ever talks about. Beltran is a good CF but Cameron, who can play shallower, gets to FAR more balls).
Piazza has definitely looked much better. He still has terrible at-bats (i.e. the first 2 last night), but he mixes in good swings now much more often. He also looked surprisingly spry while going from 1st to 3rd on Marlon Anderson’s single yesterday. He is certainly not washed up, not yet.
Beltran will get hot. He is too good not to. This division is ripe for the picking, and Minaya knows that, which is why he wants to be a buyer. It makes me nervous, but I can’t say that I disagree with his position.
Mark, I can agree with your spectisism about Sheffield - although whatever his issues are, I can’t recalling ever hearing his teammates or former teammates trash him - which means he gets the respect where it counts, the clubhouse.
As far as Beltran, I couldn’t agree with you less. Beltran has never been an option to play RF because his arm is way to weak and while Cammy is a slight upgrade defensively over Beltran in CF, he is a much bigger upgrade over Beltran in RF - which is why the Mets have never and would never entertain Beltran in RF.
So you conclusion that this makes Beltran “not a team player” is way off base. Besides, all we have read about since the spring is Beltran mentoring Reyes and working out with Wright. Not to mention he played through a painful quad injury instead of going on the DL because he wanted to be on the field to help his team. These are obviously all signs of a selfish player.
Hate this trade. Sheffield is an aging jerk. The Chokees have to DH him a couple times a week to keep him fresh, what are we gonna do? He’s no Gold Glover out there, either. RF is not an issue on this club, leave it alone!
Hey, Piazza is hitting, just like I figured he would. I hope everyone takes a good hard look at him and the rest of the league this winter (or earlier) and we sign him for two more years. What other catcher is gonna hit .270 with 20-25 HRs? Stop thinking of him as the .340-hitting monster he was and just take him for what he is, a solid productive hitter who calls a good game, plays the position well, just can’t throw people out. Besides, he needs to play a couple more years here to make sure he goes into Cooperstown wearing blue and orange!
sweetlew, I’m with you on Piazza. I stand by my theory for future Mets catching: we can probably get Shoppach from the BoSox for Glavine (and maybe a bit more, depending on how their pitching and his are for the next month), in which case Piazza is still a good deal more than serviceable for the rest of this season and possibly part of a platoon next year, provided he’d take a pay cut.
Sheffield is the absolute wrong direction for this team. We need younger hitters, and more of them, not one old jerk sucking up all our resources, patience and goodwill. With Beltran, Reyes and Wright, and our plethora of pitching prospects, we could have a dynasty if we play our cards right. This season is supposed to be about rebuilding and loading the big guns for next year and beyond. Sheff, as much respect as I have for him as a hitter, is not a part of that. He is bound to break down, both from age and steroid use, and is terrible for clubhouse relations, which I believe are very important. There is a huge difference between cocky and self-centered. Cocky can be good. Self-centered never is.
My hope is that this is a ploy. A lot of teams want Cammy, and if, say, the Orioles or Rangers know the Yanks are willing to part with Sheff for him, they might up their offer as well. If Minaya is really crafty, he may even be able to use that to deflect Cammy out of the deal completely by opening talks enough. I still think he’s more useful to us on the field than as part of a trade, unless it involves anyone named Dunn, Texeira or Soriano. We’ll see.
We are not going to get Shoppach for Glavine. Considering that Theo is a SABR GM, I’d say that deal has zero percent chance of happening.
Regardless, Shoppach should be our target. Before the Sox realize they can probably move him to first, we should be moving to grab him. As of now he’s useless to them with Varitek’s contract being what it is. Having a good offensive catcher is a huge plus for any team, and he’s got excellent defense as well. And unlike Sheff, he’s noted for being a great guy, a team player, and a natural leader.
personally i like the deal of sheff for cammy.
it seems a lot of met fans have short memories.
when diaz was hitting early on - so many people were on the “get something for cammy bandwagon”
i’m hearing alot about sheff not being a team player - which i understand - but cammy himself was whinning about not playing center in the beginnning of the season.
cammy already has more K’s than sheff in half the at bats.
this team still needs a lot of help scoring runs.
need i remind of you joe blanton shutting them out?
i would move beltran up to the #2 spot in the order - the guy was a #2 spot hitter in the feeble KC lineup and on the ’stros - he’s a career #2 hitter so bat him there.
projected lineup
#1 reyes
#2 beltran
#3 sheffield
#4 floyd
#5 wright
#6 piazza
#7 doug m
#8 whoever’s playing 2b
Stop with the Sheffield bashing. The Milwaukee stuff is ancient history. He was loved by the Braves players. Willie loves him. He also plays his butt off and cares about winning which is why he came to the Yankees in the first place. Did anybody see him go berserk on Sunday when he was safe at first and called out? He would be great in orange and blue. The only thing that would hold me back on this trade is if the Highlanders start getting too demanding of our young talent. Otherwise, a no brainer.
Check out his statements in the Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/sports/baseball/29pins.html
Yeah, that’s the kind of guy I want on my team. If he even shows up.
Sorry - it’s great to go beserk? The umpire probably made a bad call. But he’s human and that happens. Yes, it’s great that cares but the fact that he expresses is that way is why he’s a jerk. My thought then was, “I’m so glad this guy isn’t on the Mets.” Now, I have to wake up to this … the complete antithesis of the Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Cameron good vibes club.
Erm…is it just me, or is a Cameron for Sheffield trade missing the point?
This Met team has four legitimate major-league outfielders, zero legitimate first baseman, and at best a passable impression of a second baseman.
Yet the big proposed trade is an outfielder for an outfielder?
Trading Cameron for Sheffield is probably a small upgrade (incidentally, they have the same length of contract, and Sheff makes $13M next year while Cameron makes $6.5M), but it’s rearranging deck chairs. Now, if the Mets could expand the deal to include Cano, then we’re talking…
Cameron/Cairo/Heilman for Sheffield/Cano, I’d do.
Explain to me again what need Sheffield fills for us.
We need:
A first baseman
A second baseman
Bullpen help
I haven’t checked my Baseball Digest lately, but I do not think Sheffield plays any of those positions.
I’m just curious why the Mets would have to give up more players?
For once the Mets are literally in the drivers seats for whatever player they want. We have about 4 teams after Cameron, with Yankees, Padres, Orioles, and the Angels.
And you really think that a pissed off 37 year old outfielder and a marginal “prospect” with slgithly below average speed and no good defense is the best way to go? And that’s while giving them Cairo and Hielman?…SYKE.
Also, why does it seem like we HAVE to trade Cameron or even Floyd for that matter? Why is everyone, especially the media so hell bent on trading these guys? They’re signed through next year, we don’t have to trade them.
Honestly, I have rarely felt so sick over being a Mets fan. People here should be ashamed. If all you can think about in this equation is the “big bat,” then go root for the friggin’ yankees…you’re much better suited for their particular brand of depraved greed. The last 4 years of Gary Sheffield’s career have been spent between the Braves and the Yankees…As a Mets fan, that’s all you should need to hear. This guy could be a saint and I wouldn’t want to touch him with a 10-foot pole. The fact that everyone acknowledges that he’s a first rate dirt bag is only icing on the cake. If Atlanta came calling offering Chipper and Andruw Jones, would you guys be salivating as well? Do you think Boston would ever tolerate Jeter or ARod in a Red Sox uniform? Without loyalties and ethics, what embodies you as a Mets fan? This sick attitude that we should jump at a hired gun, that if we can’t beat them we should join them? It’s disgusting. Why even root for the Mets if you feel that way? How can you even fathom handing these guys to the Yankees on a platter? They’re exactly what the Yankees are looking for to turn their season around! Now, with the Mets on the precipice of recapturing the excitement of the 80s, with the Yankee ship finally beginning to sink, just as Mets fans have predicted it would for years - how could you possibly be contemplating mortgaging all that? I can’t believe there is even a conversation about this.
a marginal “prospect” with slgithly below average speed and no good defense
Ahem.
Player A: 22 years old, middle infielder, MLB career .284/.311/.464, minor league .279/.326/.421.
Player B: 22 years old, middle infielder, MLB career .276/.298/.396, minor league .285/.341/.423.
Reports are that Cano’s defense at 2B are good. I have no idea. He’s probably below average in speed, too. Fine. But calling him a “marginal prospect” is flat-out wrong. Scouts like his tools and he looks pretty similar to Jose Reyes just about across the board.
Mike B, that was damn funny.
I rather have Matzui, younger, a better fielder and a good clutch guy than Sheffield who already was complaining about his contract. Maybe we can get them to take our Matsui
I think the rumored deal (Sheffield for Cameron/Cairo as per Bergen Record) is a solid one for the Mets.
IMO the drastically improved offense Sheff would out-weigh Cameron’s defensive strengths. The Mets actually get that true #3 hitter that they’ve needed for 3 years now.
Cameron’s OPS is not going to stay at .935 - as displayed by his .632 June OPS and .786 career OPS. The Mets (for once) would actually be capitalizing on a player’s trade value when it was at its peak.
Length wise the deal is a wash.
Financially the Mets take on an extra $7.5m or so over 1.5 years, which as far as the Mets are concerned is a non-issue.
This deal isn’t one that has to be made, but I do feel it improves the team.
In terms of filling a hole…well it actually does. If you consider Mike Cameron a trade-chip, then RF should be considered a hole as well. (I personally don’t think Diaz is quite MLB everyday-ready)
Completely unrelated — we really need a FREEJAESEO thread - he just pitched his 11th straight quality start going 6-2 with a 1.92 ERA during the stretch.
Here is today’s line:
Innings 8.1 Hits 6 R/ER 1/1 BB 1 Ks 9 2.99
Why do I have to cross my fingers and hope Ishii does implode every 5 games when Seo could be pitching this way for the big club?!?!?!
in answer to jeff z’s question?
If Atlanta came calling offering Chipper and Andruw Jones, would you guys be salivating as well?
umm if we didnt have wright/beltran or if chipper was up for playing first- i would in a heartbeat.
this whole thing about team loyalty is ridiculous IMO
you must really hate having willie manage the mets and cairo at 2B. oh my gosh they used to be yankees ! they must be evil people!
Wes, with Robinson Cano playing with a lineup as stacked as the Yankees one is, wouldn’t you pitch around everyone else just to get to the “rookie”? Just go right after Cano is probably what everyone does because they do not wanna pitch to Jeter, or ARod, or Sheffield. Of course his numbers are gonna look very nice. THe kid basically has no pressure.
Now don’t get me wrong, I actually like Cano, he’s going to be a really good player with maybe a couple of All-Star seasons BUT, I’m just of the opinion that Mike Cameron can bring more talent back. Mike Cameron can bring back studs that can actually make a difference, not just complimentary players.
i think this deal could make sense if sheffield’s attitude changes but it sounds like from reading the mlb.com article with his statements after the ny times article….he wants more money and years to compensate for the inconvienance of a trade, and i dont know if that is wise. adding his pop and average (certain to be better than cammy’s offensive #’s at the end of the year) would work as his deal is constructed now. the mets need someone else to fear in the lineup on a consistent basis thats why they wanted to add delgado and why not adding him hurt this seasons prospects so much.
i think overall though they need cammy and sheffield…does he play first? do you think they want valent? in all seriousness though as evidenced from the recent subway series, sheff doesn’t do well with losing streaks and frustration (a major component of the mets season) so all in all i think unless he is super tight with willie and willie has a magic wand to make his temper, attitude and selfishness go away, this doesnt make sense. adding cano to the mix would be better and i think either heilman or seo might be enticing to the yanks who’s starting pitching has been dreadful. but dont trade cammy unless you are wowed with an offer…here’s the latter sheffield comments
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050629&content_id=1108700&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Dead as a doornail. Thank the Lord.
Whew…this would have made the Kazmir trade look like genius. Does anyone remember when Sheffield wanted to get traded from Milwaukee, he purposely made errors and such to get the trade done? As the WFAN announcers said last night, this is as bad or worse than anything Pete Rose did, and I wonder why he got a free pass. In conclusion, even if someone told me that Sheffield would hit 50 HR’s in the second half I’d still give a big thumbs down to this one. Sheff can kiss my a**.
But, if the Mets really do have this strange obsession with trading Cameron, I could somewhat get behind a Cameron for Cano/Wang type deal…plug Diaz into RF and hope he plays like he deserves it, and plug Cano into 2B.